Speaker and Cab simulators

Stompboxes circuits published in magazines, books or on DIY electronics websites.

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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby phatt » 15 Nov 2011, 14:36

rcustoms wrote:if my amp is 50w tube ,what I should change in the ua to get a better sound


Sorry,,, Not sure what you mean,,
Heck If you have a UA and you like the Amp then it should come out very close to the same sound.

On the other hand if it's not working well then you (insert post power stage EQ)
AFAIK,, the UA has no loop out for such tricks,,, which is why I have no need for such equipment ,, I just needed the load section.
Phil.
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby phatt » 15 Nov 2011, 14:45

DrNomis wrote:
phatt wrote:
DrNomis wrote:Check out the speaker simulation section of the PAIA Stack-In-A-Box, here's the schematic:


DrNormis,
Yes Without Question the StackinaBox will certainly Distort!
BUT I very much DOUBT the Stack in a box will have endless sustain.
Of course I reserve the right to be completely wrong as I've not built that one. :)

I've read that below about 100VDC triodes distort more but don't really sing well, and having tried a few experiments with the FPV I tend to agree with that observation.
If I find time I'll sim the tone shaping.
Phil.



I've built the PAIA Stack-In-A-Box twice, the difference between the two simulators is subtle, one seems to be slightly louder than the other, the preamp section doesn't really have alot of gain and the first op-amp stage has a tendency to hard clip before the tube does, also the speaker simulation circuitry can hard-clip if too much signal level from the tube is sent into it... :hmmm:


The problem maybe the way the input is setup.
Look at the input section of the FPV unit ,,which is very similar to the Mesa Vtwin.
I think You will have more luck with that setup even at the lower voltage.
Why on earth you would need to add gain to the opamp input when there are 2 triodes following it is beyond me???
My FPV circuit is insanely quite yet does a stunning halfwave clip when you up the input drive pot.
You get the classic Keith Richards R'nR rattle. I love it. :mrgreen:
Phil.
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby rcustoms » 15 Nov 2011, 15:37

hi mr phill.
I suppose that the speaker output from the tube amp is connected to the ua( input) and ua (output) to another amp.my amp has 50 watt output at 8 ohms.I have not to change anything in the ua?,with this configuration in my amp
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby phatt » 16 Nov 2011, 13:48

rcustoms wrote:hi mr phill.
I suppose that the speaker output from the tube amp is connected to the ua( input) and ua (output) to another amp.my amp has 50 watt output at 8 ohms.I have not to change anything in the ua?,with this configuration in my amp


Unless I'm mistaken,,,As far as I understand it the UA is designed to connect between the amp output and the speaker. It is not a load box with a line out.
My issue with attenuators (Any type) you have no real access to re-amplifying the signal.

Eddie Van Halen used a simple R load > Line out > Reamped the signal with re EQ and some added efx and sent the signal back through a couple of big massive SS power Amps which powered the speakers.

Quite obviously Sounded good enough to make him famous,,,so Except for a few twists,,,That is the basic concept behind my setup.
So if it worked for EVH then good enough for me. winky.

* I quote EVH himself;
"The advantage was that you could work a small gig or a concert hall and the sound was the same no matter what SPL was needed."
Phil.
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby KMG » 16 Nov 2011, 14:09

Full project
http://milas.spb.ru/~kmg/index_en.html
Micro power amplifier for line recordimg ver. 2
Image

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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby rcustoms » 16 Nov 2011, 15:01

realy cooooool
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby okgb » 16 Nov 2011, 15:59

Bradshaw said something to the effect of , they got the idea of a dry center amp by realizing
it would be better to just run the amp with a speaker and not load it [ or vice versa ? ]
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby ggedamed » 19 Oct 2012, 18:41

Hi, I thought I should share what I've found searching for a good cabsim.

First of all, if one wants to get a cabsim, he must decide what is he'll use it for. We can use it for direct recording, for playing into a Hi-Fi audio system or a monitor, or for practice/listening into some headphones. I found that each situation requires a different circuit. Even more, the source effects (mainly distortions, isn't it? :wink:) before the cabsim already have different tonal features. I mean, some CMOS inverter distortions or JFET based ones may need much less filtering. And then it depends on the amount of gain one use. Simple, isn't it?

The simpler cabsims - HPF + LPF or the runoffgroove's Condor and simillar - never had much appeal for me. I was never able to make them sound nice.
Then somehow the russian experiments came to my knowledge. Mainly distortions, but still a few cabsims. The one that remained into the back of my mind was Magnum Mk II. I mean, the samples were awsome, especially compared to the others. But 18 russian JFETs? Way too much, at least then.
Then I found another cabsim on the AMT Electronics site. This one belongs to Viktor Kempf. I already knew about his JFET distortion, so it immediatelly caught my attention. Then again, russian JFETs :scratch:.
A little bit of fast-forwarding and I found on this very forum, the AMT Legend Amps LA-1 pedals series thread. Every one includes, guess what? A cabsim. Although the YouTube clips were a bit dissapointing, they still had to be tested.

OK, enough babbling. I simulated them in Tina-TI (Texas Instruments crippled-but-free version) and this is what I've got:
cabsim_amt.jpg

cabsim_amt_cutoff-0_notch-0.jpg
cabsim_amt_cutoff-100_notch-100.jpg

cabsim_magnum-mkii.jpg

cabsim_magnum-mkii_rectified.jpg
cabsim_magnum-mkii_classic.jpg


I found that J201 can be used in the AMT cabsims. And 2N5458/2N5460 pairs can be used in Magnum Mk II. I only needed matching for the resistor divider biased pairs.

And finally a quick-and-dirty sound sample of my breadboarded Magnum Mk II.

Keep in mind that I didn't use the right parts everywhere, just wanted to see if it works. Seems to me that it does 8).
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby DimebuGG » 28 Nov 2013, 17:17

ggedamed wrote:Hi, I thought I should share what I've found searching for a good cabsim.

The simpler cabsims - HPF + LPF or the runoffgroove's Condor and simillar - never had much appeal for me. I was never able to make them sound nice.


I recorded this track years ago using all DIYs - Sansamp GT-2(I already forgot the settings but I think these are off axis, hot wired, & california), Boss CE-2 and Condor cabsim direct to my computer with no post editing or whatsoever.

Route: generic guitar(HSS) with generic stock pickups and GHS GB-Lo strings ----} Sansamp----} CE-2----} Condor----} Computer

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6921696

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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby J0K3RX » 01 Dec 2013, 19:48

DimebuGG wrote:
ggedamed wrote:Hi, I thought I should share what I've found searching for a good cabsim.

The simpler cabsims - HPF + LPF or the runoffgroove's Condor and simillar - never had much appeal for me. I was never able to make them sound nice.


I recorded this track years ago using all DIYs - Sansamp GT-2(I already forgot the settings but I think these are off axis, hot wired, & california), Boss CE-2 and Condor cabsim direct to my computer with no post editing or whatsoever.

Route: generic guitar(HSS) with generic stock pickups and GHS GB-Lo strings ----} Sansamp----} CE-2----} Condor----} Computer

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6921696



DimebuGG - You brought this one back from the grave and a good thing cause it's a great post :wink: Your sample sounds good to me! I have stumbled onto many of your layouts through the years, great work man!!! You were somewhat of a "BIG DOG" in this game for a while! What happened? :cry:

Question to phatt or anybody else who can answer: What exactly is the Phabb Tone? Is it just an active EQ / tone control voiced for guitar or is it a cab sim of some sort? I ask because I find it very interesting but I am somewhat confused on it's use?
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby DimebuGG » 01 Dec 2013, 19:56

J0K3RX wrote:
DimebuGG - You brought this one back from the grave and a good thing cause it's a great post :wink: Your sample sounds good to me! I have stumbled onto many of your layouts through the years, great work man!!! You were somewhat of a "BIG DOG" in this game for a while! What happened? :cry:


Thanks man!. I'm not into stompbox building recently. Somehow I still do layouts occasionally, you know, during my free time. Do you have something in mind?. Let me try. :wink:
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby J0K3RX » 01 Dec 2013, 19:57

This is one of the best realistic cab simulators I have found. It does one thing and one thing very well and is very small so you can integrate it into you pedals very easily...
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby J0K3RX » 01 Dec 2013, 20:04

DimebuGG wrote:
J0K3RX wrote:
DimebuGG - You brought this one back from the grave and a good thing cause it's a great post :wink: Your sample sounds good to me! I have stumbled onto many of your layouts through the years, great work man!!! You were somewhat of a "BIG DOG" in this game for a while! What happened? :cry:


Thanks man!. I'm not into stompbox building recently. Somehow I still do layouts occasionally, you know, during my free time. Do you have something in mind?. Let me try. :wink:


I would like a smaller version of the Tight Metal but none that I can think of at the moment.. I wish I did have something! I am working on the G2D Morpheus minus the noise gate right now... A lot of possibilities with that one and it sounds great, without that gate!! It has tons of gain so it needs some sort of gate, maybe just the JSX type gate like the Tight Metal? I don't like the gain control or lack there of either! Trying to put some Wampler ideas in there, maybe even the tone controls from the TW or something like that?? Not sure?
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby J0K3RX » 01 Dec 2013, 20:15

This is one of my fav speaker sims, easy to build but not as small as the simple cab sim... This one has some tonal control. Both from Russian forums :twisted:

You can find it here along with the Sprint layout. You have to translate it, unless you are Russian of course :D
http://guitar-gear.ru/index.php?p=proj&id=59
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby DimebuGG » 01 Dec 2013, 20:29

J0K3RX wrote:I would like a smaller version of the Tight Metal but none that I can think of at the moment.. I wish I did have something! I am working on the G2D Morpheus minus the noise gate right now... A lot of possibilities with that one and it sounds great, without that gate!! It has tons of gain so it needs some sort of gate, maybe just the JSX type gate like the Tight Metal? I don't like the gain control or lack there of either! Trying to put some Wampler ideas in there, maybe even the tone controls from the TW or something like that?? Not sure?


Well, the thing is, I lean myself into designing layouts with minimal wirings to none involved unlike before which was like "the smaller, the better". I'm saying, all external connections being mounted in the board. I based them mainly on which type of enclosure to be used.

I have built the Morpheus before too, sounds ok but not good enough for me. I think the last distortion I've built was that Dominator thing and was completely sold. :lol: :lol:

Anyhow, I'll try to do that TM in a 1590BB perhaps. Let's see! :D

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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby phatt » 02 Dec 2013, 16:04

J0K3RX wrote:
DimebuGG wrote:
ggedamed wrote:Hi, I thought I should share what I've found searching for a good cabsim.

The simpler cabsims - HPF + LPF or the runoffgroove's Condor and simillar - never had much appeal for me. I was never able to make them sound nice.


I recorded this track years ago using all DIYs - Sansamp GT-2(I already forgot the settings but I think these are off axis, hot wired, & california), Boss CE-2 and Condor cabsim direct to my computer with no post editing or whatsoever.

Route: generic guitar(HSS) with generic stock pickups and GHS GB-Lo strings ----} Sansamp----} CE-2----} Condor----} Computer

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6921696



DimebuGG - You brought this one back from the grave and a good thing cause it's a great post :wink: Your sample sounds good to me! I have stumbled onto many of your layouts through the years, great work man!!! You were somewhat of a "BIG DOG" in this game for a while! What happened? :cry:

Question to phatt or anybody else who can answer: What exactly is the Phabb Tone? Is it just an active EQ / tone control voiced for guitar or is it a cab sim of some sort? I ask because I find it very interesting but I am somewhat confused on it's use?


Hi J0K3RX,
The PhAbbTone circuit is one of those accidents that turned out to be a big learning Arrh huh!! moment for me.
I was always assuming the input had to powered by an active signal but as it turns out the input Z of these tone stacks has little influence on the outcome. :whappen:
But he output certainly does need to be looking into Hi Z otherwise they die in the arse and hence Hi Z tone stacks hung off the end of uber fuzz circuits with no buffer stage or gain are potential problem makers. [smilie=a_huh.gif]

I would have to be one of those nut cases that tested every tone circuit I could lay my hands on, (all the popular circuits as well as some oddball stuff) and found that the HiWatt setup to be the best for mid cut. Outside of active Para EQ circuits none I've tested can pull the deep mid notch like the HiWatt setup.
This was all done with the aid of simulation as well as real working circuits (FETS, Opamps and Valves).

The circuit does indeed work with passive PU input and used in front of cab sims or even the average TS9 clone will likely give you some arr-huh moments.

Used as first input there is a signal to noise penalty for really hi gain stuff it maybe a concern but the not so obvious point here is that being first in line you can actually turn down the signal swing lower than what would be possible as most hot rod pu's have way to much output anyway (IMO) and there is no way in hell you get touch response to happen with those hot rod guitars.
Sure if metal is all you play then touch response is not high on your list of priorities but for all those in between tones of yesteryear this might help broaden your tone options as well as allowing more control over signal swing hitting the gain stuff. :secret:

I recently had a brand new Deville 212 and the owner wanted to know how give it some fire, asking Which hot rod tricks are going to help?
I said well you can empty your bank account or,,, try this.

Passive stock 90 strat > PhAbbTone > Deville.
It took all of 5 seconds for His jaw to hit the ground.
Holy smoke!! it now sounds like a real Fender.
needless to say he went home a happy camper.

Now it's no one hit wonder box but it certainly is useful for some setups. As a SS device it won't deliver the classic triode rattle of Valve driven fender preamps but it will add tone shaping that is not normally avalible in most stomp box circuits.
Try it both ways ,, in front and after dirt or cab sims,, let your ears decide. :thumbsup

If you want to see how far I took this idea of Tone shaping then search for my *PhAbbZone circuit* it's a dedicated floor control unit with AX7 front end >PhAbbTone > Cab sim > Viariable Notch cut filter(Para EQ) > master tone and efx loop in one unit.

I can't seem to find it right now but it's here on FSB somewhere,,,

Phil.
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby ggedamed » 31 Mar 2014, 00:02

DimebuGG wrote:
ggedamed wrote:Hi, I thought I should share what I've found searching for a good cabsim.

The simpler cabsims - HPF + LPF or the runoffgroove's Condor and simillar - never had much appeal for me. I was never able to make them sound nice.


I recorded this track years ago using all DIYs - Sansamp GT-2(I already forgot the settings but I think these are off axis, hot wired, & california), Boss CE-2 and Condor cabsim direct to my computer with no post editing or whatsoever.

Route: generic guitar(HSS) with generic stock pickups and GHS GB-Lo strings ----} Sansamp----} CE-2----} Condor----} Computer

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6921696


Sorry for the late reply.
Nice recording.
The signal going into the Condor was already processed by the Sansamp GT-2's cabsim, so I don't think the recording would be very different without the Condor.
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Re: Speaker and Cab simulators

Postby clintrubber » 10 Dec 2014, 23:56

rcustoms wrote:IBANEZ EC50
TT.jpg

SCHEMATICS ANYBODY?


Just curious if anyone found a schematic or any other info for the EC50 ? Or traced it ?

Interesting to see how 'old style' analog simulators can still hold up against todays DSP.

Thanks!

ibanez-ec-50-parrot-box-40595_-_.jpg
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