Ibanez TS-7 TS7 mods?

mmckinney · Post by **mmckinney** » 13 Oct 2011, 07:34

Anyone know what the Keeley mod for this pedal involves? Any other mods? I have looked all over google and all I can really find is to change two resistors and maybe experiment with different opamps... is this all Keeley is doing... or maybe there is something much better...
thanks

roseblood11 · Post by **roseblood11** » 13 Oct 2011, 08:28

What sense does it make to ask what Keeley does?
At first, you should ask yourself what YOU want to do. What don't you like about the sound of the pedal as it is?

Then you should read this: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/TStech/tsxfram.htm

As far as I know, the TS7 is an exact copy of the TS9. Personally, I think that's the best version and it doesn't really need any mods. If Keeley changes two resistors, it's most probably a conversion to TS808 specs. Bullshit, if you ask me...
What does the extra switch in the TS7 do? More gain? If you don't need that, you could use it for s.th. else instead. Maybe more bass, by adding a cap in parallel to that 47nF, as RG Keen suggests. Or sym/asym clipping, by adding a third diode. Or a completely different set of diodes...

mmckinney · Post by **mmckinney** » 13 Oct 2011, 15:36

Hmmm... that is a good question... there really isn't anything I don't like about the pedal except maybe that its a bit noisy... and any mods I did would probably include a switch or series of switches to return to default... I suppose I am just curious as to whether I am missing out on anything and/or unaware of something spectacular this pedal may be able to do. I bought this pedal so cheap ($10), I thought it would be an excellent platform to experiment on.

roseblood11 · Post by **roseblood11** » 13 Oct 2011, 17:26

Most noise comes from the transistors and the opamp.
You could replace the 2sc1815 with bc549, but be careful, the pinout is different, so the new transistors have to cross their legs (see datasheets). Don't touch the 2sk30, they are part of the bypass switching.
And you could replace the IC with a socket and try other types. A LM833, OPA2134, OP275, TLC2272 will produce less noise, but they will change the sound a bit (as RG Keen explains...). And you could replace all resistors with higher values with metal film types, they will hiss less.

Replacing the 1µF elctrolytics and the tantalum caps with film caps will also improve the sound. Panasonic SMF is a good choice, because they 're small and have long legs.

Don't expect too much from a tubescreamer, it's a one trick pony. It's great to drive a tube amp into overdrive and add a bit of dirt on it's own. And if you use it like that, the typical mid-hump with reduced bass makes perfect sense.
If someone says that he wants much more bass frequencies (the most popular mod...), he either plays a shitty amp or he's a living-room rockstar....

mmckinney · Post by **mmckinney** » 13 Oct 2011, 20:49

... food for thought... oh and fantastic link to geofex. very interesting read. so for fun I may attempt to change the 2 way toggle for hot mode into a 3 way with the 808 mod being the third... haven't looked at the schematic but does that sound possible?

roseblood11 · Post by **roseblood11** » 13 Oct 2011, 22:20

You would have to change two resistors...
Doesn't make much sense anyway.

mmckinney · Post by **mmckinney** » 13 Oct 2011, 22:43

haha... ok... well... I guess I will just leave it alone then... thanks for the insight. I may try your suggestions for the noise reduction at some point soon and will report back.
Thanks again..

dan5150 · Post by **dan5150** » 21 Oct 2011, 14:32

I agree that the TS7 is kida the "sleeper" of the bunch, since they can be found for dirt cheap on ebay all the time. To answer the specific question, I found an old article on what Keeley did to the TS7, so here you go: (NOTE that since the TS7 is pretty much a TS9, these same mods apply to that one as well.)

TS-7 Tone Lok Mods

There are several interesting things about the TS7. First of all the circuit is nearly identical to the TS9. Why do I say nearly? The circuit has a Hot mode and the parts are 1/8 watt in general instead of the 1/4 watt used in the TS9. There should be little argument that the wattage of the resistor affects tone. The Hot mode switched can be set to the TS9 mode and *puff* you have a TS9. At about 1/2 the cost! Here are some other interesting things. The new TS7 comes with the re-issue JRC4558D chip. So if someone is charging you to install a JRC4558D chip in the pedal BEWARE!!!! Now this JRC4558D chip is not the good old one. It is a new chip relabeled to meet the demand for a JRC chip on the market. I still recommend the Texas Instruments chip. It is sweeter sounding and all of my customers like it. I have had some that had a TS9 modded by me with a JRC chip and then sent it back to get a TI chip when they got their second T.I.808 mod pedal from me. They were obviously pleased with the TI tone! So am I!!!

So here's what to do to make a TS7 a real --|:|-- Screamer!!!

Change R85 to a value between 2.2kohm and 3.5kohm for More Drive. The lower the value the higher the distortion. The top end of your drive control now has an extended range! It will be a resistor one the main board that is marked yellow, violet red gold. Note I had a typo here before. I hope this hasn't caused anyone problems!

Change C34 to fix the darn bass response! The Tone Cap mod. Change it to a value between 0.68uF and 0.1uF. Use a good film capacitor. The 0.1uF is a more common value. Changing it to either value will not affect the singing midrange tone of this pedal. Changing this value is not a bass boost, it is a frequency response fix. The roll off is not designed to take into effect the fact that guitar players tune down, there are 7 string guitars with a low B string, etc. The 0.68uF will barely fix the problem if are worried. I wouldn't be though. Out of hundreds of mods only 2 people have said that it was to much bass. That is probably a 0.5% chance that the 0.1uF would be too much.

Change R27 to a value between 22kohm and 27kohm. The lower the value the Less Drive you have when the overdrive knob is turned down. This is a very important mod if you want a clean boost or to drive the input of a tube amp into saturation without the effect of the TS7.

Change R58 to a 10kohm and change R55 to a 100 ohm. This is the old standard TS808 mod. It changes the output impedance of the circuit. It was designed to drive a tube input. The engineer that designed the TS808 said that he changed it to its current value to eliminate some static electricity effects. Has anyone experienced some sporadic ticks or pops with a TS808? Email me if you have. He says it doesn't affect the tone of the circuit. I can tell you that a change of impedance will affect how it works with other effects or amps and that of course will make a change in volume, tone, or both.

Change D3 or D4 for some More 2nd Order Harmonic Content. Just change one of them in my opinion. I like the sound of asymmetrical clipping. These diodes are in the negative feedback loop of the op-amp. It takes a certain amount of voltage to get them to forward conduct (turn on). If the two diodes are different the top or the bottom of the sine wave will clip sooner or later depending on the voltage needed to turn on the diode and how sharp the knee is. I like the sound of the standard Ibanez diode in one position and the 1N4002 in the other.

Change that itsy bitsy tiny weenie red led to a BLUE LED. Drill out the hole to 5mm or a little larger than 3/16ths . Use the red led's stand off for support. For a blue LED you need to change the 10k resistor to a 4.7k ohm. The 10k you need to remove is marked brown black orange gold and it very close to the red LED and stand off.

Robert Keeley BSEE

Last updated 03/29/02

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 21 Oct 2011, 16:37

roseblood11 wrote:Most noise comes from the transistors and the opamp.
You could replace the 2sc1815 with bc549, but be careful, the pinout is different, so the new transistors have to cross their legs (see datasheets). Don't touch the 2sk30, they are part of the bypass switching.
And you could replace the IC with a socket and try other types. A LM833, OPA2134, OP275, TLC2272 will produce less noise, but they will change the sound a bit (as RG Keen explains...). And you could replace all resistors with higher values with metal film types, they will hiss less.

Replacing the 1µF elctrolytics and the tantalum caps with film caps will also improve the sound. Panasonic SMF is a good choice, because they 're small and have long legs.

- leave the trannies alone as a starter. They're all emitter followers so with their 0.98 times amplification they add little hiss.
- The only reason tantalum makes a change in sound is because they're intended for fast response to signal changes. This means they influence your treble. Decreasing the value of the 220nF after the drive stage does a far better job for that task. Furthermore tantalums add distortion. Not really a problem in an ovedrive pedal but the main reason tantalum is almost unanimously regarded not-done in the hifi electronics scene. Tantalum in this application will not make your pedal sound better. Only different.

Controll · Post by **Controll** » 23 Oct 2011, 08:39

Hey guys.

I have an TS-7 too - and yes i think its pretty good in original condition except the housing.
My one i have rehoused into a BB. I added an foot-switch for the optional lead (more gain) switch and an tap switch to turn the pedal on and off, but my tap switch does not work correctly.
sometimes it works and the pedal goes on and off, other times it only works while i'm holding it down.

can you tell me whats my fault ?

thanks for support, Controll

roseblood11 · Post by **roseblood11** » 23 Oct 2011, 09:09

Which type of switch do you use exactly?

Do you use the original FET-switching?

Maybe 'debouncing' is the keyword, but I don't know a good link that describes it in english

Controll · Post by **Controll** » 23 Oct 2011, 09:14

dann lass uns deutsch sprechen, wenn man das im forum darf. - sonst gern auch per pn.

edit: achso.

ja, ich benutze noch das originale fet switching mit einem Alpha DPDT Taster (momentary), weil ich nicht weiß, wie ich es umgehen kann.

roseblood11 · Post by **roseblood11** » 23 Oct 2011, 09:57

Umrüstung auf true bypass ist eigentlich recht simpel, studier mal den Text von RG Keen auf Geofex.com, der oben verlinkt ist. Er trennt die Pläne von Bypassswitching und Audioteil komplett. Kneif alles raus, was zum Bypass gehört und mach um den Audioteil eine Schaltung mit 3pdt nach diesem Muster: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... ewsIndex=1

nitraus · Post by **nitraus** » 26 Jul 2012, 23:39

i tried to do the gain mod (R27/R85 swap) and it worked!
still, the pedal sounds like there is a blanket on my amp. i think i'll go for the bass mod (C34) and the caps change as suggested by r. g. keen.
any other ideas/suggestions?

flowmastergfunk · Post by **flowmastergfunk** » 13 Jul 2014, 21:49

I am digging this back up for good reason. I have recently become quite fond of the Tone Lok series, and have been fiddling with several different specimen. I replaced the switches in a PH7 and a pair of DE7's thus far, and they all worked without issue. I tried using the same switch in the TS7, and was having some serious switch bouncing issues. I am not exactly sure what consensus was reached in German, but it seems like the same issue that was addressed earlier.

I always enjoy documenting my accomplishments and failures, so this is what I have gone through thus far.

As with the other tone lok pedals, I have found it appropriate to snip off the "leg" of the function switch PCB, where the stock switch is mounted. Unlike the others, this leg has some resident components on it: R87, R90 and C50. I had managed to make a mini pcb to stick onto the switch by repositioning c50 and adding two wires to run back to the function PCB. However, it was not as perfect and dependable as the others. It was actually completely sporadic and unreliable.

I tried bypassing the 3 aforementioned components and tapping into the function pcb directly, and it seemed a little more accurate with it's response, but not perfect. I tried another switch of the same type, and saw no difference

Yet, I tried a lighter duty momentary....still without R87, R90 and C50...and it worked perfectly. The new switch may be sturdier than the factory switch...but not by much. It is still hokey, chrome plastic, and looks like it will eventually fall apart. I would very much like to get the other HD momentary switch to work. I found a couple articles to research switchbounce diagnostics, but I do not have an oscilloscope. This leaves me at the mercy of someone else offering advice

I do have a good stockpile of 3pdt switches too, so I wouldn't mind making a true bypass version...but I want to successfully tackle the momentary switch first.

On a different note,I have also come to believe, that if you deduct the possibility of battery power and open up the inside of the case, there is room to move some of the smaller PCB's around. I believe that if using a remote LED, removing the stock momentary switch/leg and dpdt "Hot" switch, enough room could be made to fit a DPDT PUSHBUTTON in it's place! And with the brilliance of the push town knobs, you won't worry about stepping on one of the knobs when you activate it

Then again, just a mini toggle would still be better to have than the slider. I am still fiddling with placement, but given the large blank spot on the main pcb, the output pcb (with the actual output jack removed) should adhere nicely with double sided tape, thus allowing more room to move the funtion pcb. Rough example...(ignore that the output jack is still soldered on)

Furthermore, I also have an FZ7 in the stockpile that has been awaiting the same treatment. I just opened it up, to find that is has the same function PCB and output PCB. The only difference on the function pcb is the placement of the switch wire harness (FZ7 on the left, TS7 has them on the right. All of the passives are the same. Here is a picture of all the components together (modified TS7 components on the left of the picture), and the 3 types of switches in question for a visual comparison.

The common R55 and R58 replacement that is commonly found as a mod for the TS7 should also apply to the FZ7, although I am not exactly sure how it would behave. It will be easy enough to switch the modded PCB in and out to compare and contrast though!

flowmastergfunk · Post by **flowmastergfunk** » 24 Jul 2014, 00:19

I am putting the hunt for a momentary switch solution on "bypass" for now. I am diving right into a true bypass version. I did some rearranging to make more room inside, wired in a new toggle for the hot switch, and put in a chrome LED bezel for my green LED. Painted the case a textured black....no need for any markings, but left the TS7 badge for good measure. I will post another update when I get the switch wired in, but I am not sure how to short the stock buffer into always being on yet

flowmastergfunk · Post by **flowmastergfunk** » 05 Aug 2014, 16:44

After playing with an SH7 that I have on the bench, I decided to toy around further with an attempt at getting an HD momentary switch to work without switchbounce. I have found that bridging a 473k cap across the the switch terminals boasts borderline flawless performance. I am also fond of the performance of a spdt momentary that I experimented with as well. I may even prefer it!

Thus far, changing a switch by itself has worked flawlessly with the DE7, PH7, and CF7. No bounce. All of the dirt boxes that I have seen thus far in the tone lok line have the same layout on the switch PCB, and would need the added capacitor.

This finding was by educated guess and trial. NOT calculated! I got the hint from a 473k cap in a debouncing circuit on an old DOD switch. I tried other smaller values, and this cap reaped the best results

As of yet, still no progress on the TBP version. Waiting to get another functioning TS7 in the mail to help me out

And hints on how to trick the bypass circuit to always leave the effect on. I am sure I will find it on the interwebs eventually, but if anyone knows off hand, it would be appreciated :3

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 06 Aug 2014, 18:32

473k cap means 47nF (nanoFarad)

As for hints for always on?
Remove and jumper the drain source connection of the "On" FET's and remove the "bypass" Fet's.

tschrama · Post by **tschrama** » 06 Aug 2014, 20:05

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:
roseblood11 wrote:Most noise comes from the transistors and the opamp.
You could replace the 2sc1815 with bc549, but be careful, the pinout is different, so the new transistors have to cross their legs (see datasheets). Don't touch the 2sk30, they are part of the bypass switching.
And you could replace the IC with a socket and try other types. A LM833, OPA2134, OP275, TLC2272 will produce less noise, but they will change the sound a bit (as RG Keen explains...). And you could replace all resistors with higher values with metal film types, they will hiss less.

Replacing the 1µF elctrolytics and the tantalum caps with film caps will also improve the sound. Panasonic SMF is a good choice, because they 're small and have long legs.
- leave the trannies alone as a starter. They're all emitter followers so with their 0.98 times amplification they add little hiss. .....

Emitter followers add just as much hiss as !relative! to input.. It's S/N that counts, we're never interested in absolute noise levels, are we?

flowmastergfunk · Post by **flowmastergfunk** » 06 Aug 2014, 20:05

Thanks for the hint and nomenclature correction

I was acknowledging it as a 0.047u 100v cap for ordering purposes, but I thought I would just list it as I saw it.

I do have a capacitor chart bookmarked still for all of my conversion needs. I feel I will need a cheatsheet for a long time. Too dyslexic haha.

Two other notes:

Dirk, I accidentally discovered your website on a google search recently. Extra props, and I must say, I am a tad jealous of your fancy colored Tone Loks!

Also, I don't believe it has been mentioned yet, but the TS7 appears it could take a stable 18v, at first glance. All the electrolytics are 25v, 50v, or 63v! I might have to keep a guinea pig running at 18v to see if I fry anything

Played around for a while today a/b'ing between a modded ts7 and my DOD 555...that makes for one hell of a cock fight! The DOD has some extra peck in the high end of the tone knob, but it will just about cover every sound the ts7 will give. The ts7 certainly put up a better fight at 18v! Will post a video when I can go between stock and modded ts7's against the 555