Denio distortion/DS1 clone?

donbenjy · Post by **donbenjy** » 15 Apr 2009, 14:40

Hey, I just bought a Denio distortion box off ebay which was described as "broken." This amounts to a broken case (the pedal doesn't close all the way), and a very badly soldered footswitch...My idea was to completely frankenstein the thing into something like a Rat, but opening it up, I found JRC 4558DDs, so I might try a TS808 (though I'd really like a distortion more than OD)...

Apparently they're DS-1 clones, though not exactly the same obviously (this thing sounds AWFUL)...I've started to trace the PCB, but I've come up with a TC4007UBP inverter straight after the input caps and I have no idea what an inverter does in a pedal. This is my first butchering of a pedal, and I know all about clipping diodes and opamps, but have never come across an inverter here before. My guess is that it acts as a buffer (the output looks like it connects to the thing as well). Anyone got any insights as to what its purpose is, and whether its gonna have a bad effect on my tone (other than it not be TBP)?

Also, I'm not really bothered how much I have to butcher the thing to get it into a TS808 or a rat, but which, in your opinion, would be less messy, and is there anything else I might try instead? I've not tried a modded DS-1 before, but can they be nicer than rats (and what does a rat or DS1 sound like with a 4558D in?)

Finally, the board has Ds-30A labelled on it, but I can't find a schematic anywhere - has anyone already traced one (to save me the effort) or knows where I can find one?

Thanks for the help guys!
Ben

5thumbs · Post by **5thumbs** » 15 Apr 2009, 18:11

I've never worked with any of the DS-30 variants before, so I can't help you on modding ideas.

However, if you can't mod the pedal to your satisfaction, you could build a stock DS-1 board from scratch and put it in that BOSS-like chassis. If you're interested in that option, please check out the 'Build a Stock DS-1 Distortion" section of the doc linked in my signature line. It's a verified layout designed by Muhammad Iqbal. Any of the DS-1 mods listed in that doc will work on Muhummad's layout; any other mods you find on the 'Net for BOSS DS-1 pedals will work as well.

Good luck on the DS-30 research/modding. If it doesn't pan out, hopefully you'll find the doc and option of building a DS-1 into the DS-30 chassis useful.

Cheers!

P.S., I can't speak for the RAT with a 4558D in it, but I think the 4558 family of chips sound AWFUL in the DS-1...much worse than the stock chips. OPA2134PA chips are my favorites in the DS-1, but opions vary on that point. I didn't like the TL072 at all either. Muhammad tried the LM358N in his build and said it sounded very comparable to the Burr Brown OPA2134PA chip.

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 16 Apr 2009, 20:29

donbenjy wrote:Apparently they're DS-1 clones, though not exactly the same obviously (this thing sounds AWFUL)...I've started to trace the PCB, but I've come up with a TC4007UBP inverter straight after the input caps and I have no idea what an inverter does in a pedal. This is my first butchering of a pedal, and I know all about clipping diodes and opamps, but have never come across an inverter here before. My guess is that it acts as a buffer (the output looks like it connects to the thing as well). Anyone got any insights as to what its purpose is, and whether its gonna have a bad effect on my tone (other than it not be TBP)?

A CMOS inverter is quite often used in a stompbox as a MOSFET transistor stage, nothing digital here. It's quite easier to use than discrete MOSFETs (protection diodes are integrated), cheap, and they come by a bunch of six!

Some examples of logic 4000 series used as gain stages are EHX Hot Tubes, Way Huge Red Llama, Catalinbread Super Charged Overdrive, Emma ReezaFRATzitz, ROG 3-legged dog, DoubleD, Twenty-two Sevenths and UBEscreamer, Mark Hammer FortyNiner, etc.

Some other uses of logic inverters are oscillators (LFO or crude VCO like the Weird Sound Generator) and latches (for example a 4007 is used in switch circuit of DOD pedals).

donbenjy · Post by **donbenjy** » 17 Apr 2009, 18:13

Cool, thanks...I'm guessing its used as both a buffer transistor, and in the switching, though I've not had a chance to trace any more this week!

5thumbs, have you ever tried modding a stock DS1 into something else like a rat? It doesn't look too hard - the diodes are both acting as symetrical hard limiters, whereas the TS uses them in the feedback loop...

I wonder if the 4558D is better suited to overdrive than distortion then? As its pretty revered in the TS808...
I could try a LM358N, as I can't buy BB chips easily in the UK, and ordering online costs loads for shipping. It'd be easier to try and stick with the chip that's there though if I can - I hate desoldering ICs.

5thumbs · Post by **5thumbs** » 27 Apr 2009, 03:40

donbenjy wrote: 5thumbs, have you ever tried modding a stock DS1 into something else like a rat? It doesn't look too hard - the diodes are both acting as symetrical hard limiters, whereas the TS uses them in the feedback loop...

I've never tried modding a DS-1 into a RAT. Even though they both use hard clipping diodes to ground, I think each pedal has their own idiosyncratic elements that make them unique from each other. In the DS-1, the Q2 transistor boost before the opamp provides a treble boost before clipping, thus providing that hallmark DS-1 trebly bite. On the "classic" RAT, it's the unique sound of the LM308 opamp and filter control that gives it a unique sound. The LM308 is an externally compensated opamp that certainly wouldn't work in the post-1994 DS-1 pedals; I doubt it would work in the original M.I.J. DS-1 pedals with the TA7136 opamp. (I think they have completely different pinouts.)

You might find it easier to mod a DS-1 to sound like a RAT without converting the DS-1 circuit into the RAT circuit.

5thumbs · Post by **5thumbs** » 27 Apr 2009, 03:50

donbenjy wrote: I wonder if the 4558D is better suited to overdrive than distortion then? As its pretty revered in the TS808...
I could try a LM358N, as I can't buy BB chips easily in the UK, and ordering online costs loads for shipping. It'd be easier to try and stick with the chip that's there though if I can - I hate desoldering ICs.

Not necessarily. I have an Ibanez SM7 Smash Box lurking around my shop and it has two 4558 opamps in it. Mind you, the SM7 is basically a TS on steroids, with the addition of hard-clippers and a boatload of pre- and post-distortion EQing to get the "metal pedal" sound.

As for the *4558 in the DS-1, I just tried all of the 4558 chip variants I had in my personal stash in the DS-1. I didn't like any of them better than the stock chips. If your DS-1 has the M5332AL chip in your DS-1, you should try the LM358N. If you have the newest stock chip, NJM3040AL, then leave it in there, as it is pretty good from the start.

5thumbs · Post by **5thumbs** » 27 Apr 2009, 13:35

5thumbs wrote: ... If your DS-1 has the M5332AL chip in your DS-1, you should try the LM358N. If you have the newest stock chip, NJM3040AL, then leave it in there, as it is pretty good from the start.

Whoops, that would be the M5223AL, not the M5332AL.

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 27 Apr 2009, 19:42

5thumbs wrote:
donbenjy wrote: 5thumbs, have you ever tried modding a stock DS1 into something else like a rat?
You might find it easier to mod a DS-1 to sound like a RAT without converting the DS-1 circuit into the RAT circuit.

I don't know to which extent it's an exact clone of these pedals, but there is a Behringer DM100 Distortion Modeler that claim to imitate the DS1, the RAT and the MXR Dist+ at the flick of a switch ...

http://filters.muziq.be/model/behringer/dm100

BAMF · Post by **BAMF** » 02 Dec 2009, 16:44

This pedal sounds awful stock.

But just try changing the clip stages and see how this ugly duckling becomes a swan.

It even served as my main dirt pedal for a while.

I've also been thwarted in tracing this, but seeing that I'm not alone, I think I'll take it up again.

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 03 Dec 2009, 02:52

the inverter is probably used for switching, no?

5thumbs · Post by **5thumbs** » 03 Dec 2009, 18:10

RnFR wrote:the inverter is probably used for switching, no?

That'd be my guess as well. BOSS appears to like to use discrete components in their flip-flops, but a lot of the "cheap pedal" sellers use the inverter chips to do the same thing. I have a Daphon chorus that uses one...and have seen them in a few (regrettable) Arion pedals I've seen.

tasteless · Post by **tasteless** » 08 Dec 2010, 09:12

It's not a DS-1 , I dont know what it is But , I'm thinking it could have been based around a Super distortion/feedbacker or Heavy Metal or something.
A friend of My nephews brought one of these around and just asked for it to be changed , did'nt care how !
He said he had a few nice boxes ,so to just make it "wierd and punk !"
I said it was already !
Anyway We just probed around and swapped a couple of caps , changed the clippers to leds and altered the range of the tone control.
He was happy with that ( He wanted to pay more - I just took ten bucks to throw in My parts fund ).
Given more time I would have loved to experiment more , It definately had potential.
I think I shall look around for one to mess about with.
I've got a few nice boxes myself ,so I could do with some "wierd and punk !".

mictester · Post by **mictester** » 09 Dec 2010, 00:30

donbenjy wrote:Hey, I just bought a Denio distortion box off ebay which was described as "broken." This amounts to a broken case (the pedal doesn't close all the way), and a very badly soldered footswitch...My idea was to completely frankenstein the thing into something like a Rat, but opening it up, I found JRC 4558DDs, so I might try a TS808 (though I'd really like a distortion more than OD)...

Apparently they're DS-1 clones, though not exactly the same obviously (this thing sounds AWFUL)...I've started to trace the PCB, but I've come up with a TC4007UBP inverter straight after the input caps and I have no idea what an inverter does in a pedal. This is my first butchering of a pedal, and I know all about clipping diodes and opamps, but have never come across an inverter here before. My guess is that it acts as a buffer (the output looks like it connects to the thing as well). Anyone got any insights as to what its purpose is, and whether its gonna have a bad effect on my tone (other than it not be TBP)?

Thanks for the help guys!
Ben

The 4007 is being used to switch the effect on and off. There are several configurations using that IC for effect switching. It works quite well. Your pedal probably sounds horrible because they've loaded the wrong components on to the board (quite common in cheap gear).

If you want a simple distortion pedal, take a look at the DOD250. It's just an op-amp stage driving across a pair of diodes to ground. You could use the other half of the dual as a tone control stage, if you're feeling bold!