cAMPus that jam - compressor/lim - THAT4301based - 9VDC in

Original effects with schematics, layouts and instructions, freely contributed by members or found in publications. Cannot be used for commercial purposes without the consent of the owners of the copyright.
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cAMPus
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Post by cAMPus »

Hi,

together with AK in the german Musiker-Board-Forum I cloned a THAT4301-IC-based compressor/limiter for use with bass or guitar that provides an common 9VDC input.

You may find that the circuit we used/modded/cloned is very similiar to the Carl Martin Compressor Limiter http://www.carlmartin.com/product_compressor.htm; see http://forum.musikding.de/vb/showpost.p ... stcount=12

Our aim was to optimize the circuit based on the design notes provided by the THAT Corporation http://www.thatcorp.com/Design_Notes.shtml for use with electric basses and guitars; and it should work with an 9VDC power supply.

schematic: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... ematic.png
eagle pcb: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... -0_pcb.brd (eagle by cadsoft: http://www.cadsoft.de/download.htm )
perfboard layout: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... layout.diy (diy layout creator: http://diy-layout-creator.googlecode.co ... layout.exe )
drilling templates, BB-type case: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... hrplan.pdf
http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... n_bild.bmp
label, BB-type case: http://hpbimg.someinfos.de/workshops/th ... design.pdf

complete workshop (german): http://www.musiker-board.de/faq-worksho ... tarre.html

I hope you´ll enjoy
Ulrich

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Silent Fly
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Post by Silent Fly »

Interesting project - thanks.

The BS250 for polarity protection is a P-channel MOSFET. On the schematic is indicated as N-Channel :wink:
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Post by RnFR »

excellent! thanks for sharing your project with us!
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Post by mictester »

RnFR wrote:excellent! thanks for sharing your project with us!
Unfortunately, it won't work properly. The voltage multipliers they've used cannot supply a sufficiently high current or a quiet enough DC supply for this circuit. If you disregard the attempted power supply, the circuit is largely taken from the "That" application notes.

I've built several of the "That" compressors, and they work well, but only if supplied from well-decoupled, well-filtered DC supplies. You can forget trying to use those expensive voltage multipliers!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Post by cAMPus »

mictester wrote:...
Unfortunately, it won't work properly. The voltage multipliers they've used cannot supply a sufficiently high current or a quiet enough DC supply for this circuit. If you disregard the attempted power supply, the circuit is largely taken from the "That" application notes.

I've built several of the "That" compressors, and they work well, but only if supplied from well-decoupled, well-filtered DC supplies. You can forget trying to use those expensive voltage multipliers!
Hi,

unfortunately you are wrong.

I built 2 prototypes, the first one with only 1 LT1054 ( Image ) and - yes the amount of current was a problem at power on - a relay for a delayed power-on.

schematic:
that-jam_9V_relais_v-1-3_schematic.png
pcb:
that-jam_version1-relais.JPG
that-jam_version1-relais.JPG (48.02 KiB) Viewed 8013 times
It works very well but I decided to use 2 LT1054, one for the positive doubling and one for the inverted, negative doubling, cause the voltage drop with only 1 LT1054 could be a problem for some 12V voltage regulators that need more than ~13Vin.

The circuit with the THAT4301, NE5532 and so on consume about 40mA at 9VDC.

The that4301 datasheet tells us:
positive supply current: typ 12mA, max 18ma
negative supply current: typ -12mA, max -18ma

The LT1054 datasheet, application information:
positive doubler Vout = 50mA (with 1N4001 diodes - I use 1N5817)
For the bipolar supply doubler there is no currency specification.

AK tested the bipolar supply version as well and had nor problem with the current.

Thats all I have to say
Ulrich


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Post by mictester »

I've just measured the current used by my "That 4301" compressor board. I used two dual op-amps, and the overall current is +/- 28 mA. The little voltage doubler ICs will be struggling at this kind of current level, and will be noisy. Also, to develop almost 60 mA at elevated voltages, your little 9V battery will last a few minutes at best.

If you're going to power dual-rail supplied circuits properly, either use two batteries or a mains power supply!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Post by cAMPus »

Hi,
mictester wrote:I've just measured the current used by my "That 4301" compressor board. I used two dual op-amps, and the overall current is +/- 28 mA. The little voltage doubler ICs will be struggling at this kind of current level, and will be noisy. Also, to develop almost 60 mA at elevated voltages, your little 9V battery will last a few minutes at best.

If you're going to power dual-rail supplied circuits properly, either use two batteries or a mains power supply!
Hi,

first:
I never use 9V-batteries or rechargeable batteries for stompboxes.
This stompbox was not designed to contain a battery and there ist no place for it in a BB-type case

second:
The circuit isn't noisy at all - noise is reduced by the positive and negative doubler circuits themselves and by the positive und negative 12V regulator circuits.

But approbably you know it better without building it ...

U.

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Post by cAMPus »

Silent Fly wrote:Interesting project - thanks.

The BS250 for polarity protection is a P-channel MOSFET. On the schematic is indicated as N-Channel :wink:
Oh, I forgot:

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/m ... switch.htm

The schematic diagram has a very small resolution ;)


U.

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Post by Zodd42 »

Nice info everybody.
But can we get verification the original posts work?

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Post by cAMPus »

Zodd42 wrote:Nice info everybody.
But can we get verification the original posts work?
'Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed' - maybe you would believe in a youtube-video? ;)

I tell you: it works - and I don´t believe, I know it.

And have a look into the LT1054 datasheet - maybe the problem was that someone thought of the LTC1044/MAX1044/ICL7660s when I said 'LT1054'?

For those who like to see (yes I made a revision of the circuit but there still 2 lt1054; but I replaced the LM2990 by a common and much cheaper 79L12 voltage regulator after a slight modification of the LT1054 negative voltage doubler circuit. Now it delivers ~-15,5V on-load to the 79L12 input):
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Post by cAMPus »

Hi,
askwho69 wrote:... by the way my qestion is.. do we really need to make it exactly 12v? well i was reading the data sheet http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/4301data.pdf < this one! the maximum voltage is 18 +/- isn't it? or there some issue using 17 +/-? my point is not using the 12volt regulator?

I read also the new version without the 12 volts regulator..:D i want to try some next time i love this compressor !! ...
+/-18V are the absolut maximum ratings for the that4301.
You should not test this limit. Better stay below +/-15V.

For that purpose I used the 12V zener diodes instead of the voltage regulators. Simply and best.

The newest version v1.4 of the schematic, layout and so on u will find in the workshop in the musiker-board:
http://www.musiker-board.de/faq-worksho ... 1-4-a.html

Ulrich

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Post by uncleboko »

It would rather nice to have a translation into English!

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Post by mictester »

cAMPus wrote:Hi,
askwho69 wrote:... by the way my qestion is.. do we really need to make it exactly 12v? well i was reading the data sheet http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/4301data.pdf < this one! the maximum voltage is 18 +/- isn't it? or there some issue using 17 +/-? my point is not using the 12volt regulator?
I read also the new version without the 12 volts regulator..:D i want to try some next time i love this compressor !! ...
+/-18V are the absolut maximum ratings for the that4301.
You should not test this limit. Better stay below +/-15V.
For that purpose I used the 12V zener diodes instead of the voltage regulators. Simply and best.
Ulrich
For experimental purpose, I tried using a pair of inverter ICs for the PSU. The current drawn was nearly 80 mA which is far too much for battery power.

Your use of zeners for regulation is likely to be noisy unless you're really careful with supply decoupling. The manufacturers didn't design three-terminal regulators for no reason!

The simplest way to power this circuit is either from two batteries, or from an AC supply with two half-wave rectifiers (one for each rail) and two three-terminal regulators.

The That 4301 introduces noise in the gain reduction stage as the gain changes unless you are really careful with both the layout and thorough with the supply decoupling.
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Post by uncleboko »

Use 3 high power rechargeable PP3 batteries and a 7812/7912 combo.

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Post by Liquids »

Version 1.4 has the zeners.

Ulrich - any thoughts on removing D1 entirely if only soft knee response is used?

Stephen - I don't speak a word of German, and I was able to register on that forum since all the forms are pretty standard format, and google translates pages reasonably well.

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Post by Liquids »

I wanted to note to anyone who is adventurous, that this page here:

http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/dn115.pdf

Shows a usable schematic in how to go from the single knob response-time knob to separate controls for attack and release.

I haven't made the switch-over on the breadboard yet though I plan to. This circuit runs very nicely on bipolar power from a cheap AC supply that is rectified, filtered, and regulated into +/-15v. The design notes really leave little to no guesswork on how the whole thing works. The circuit is there and they more or less tell you how to tweak component values for desired result.

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Post by johnk »

I just etched, built and tested the cAMPus that jam version and it sounds great. the newest one with a single LT1054 and two 12V zeners allows it to run perfectly off of a standard 9V power supply.

Image

Image

Image

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Post by johnk »

DONE! (and I love it!)

Image

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Post by Duckman »

Nice work! :applause:
And looks awesome too :thumbsup

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