Baldwin-Burns - Buzzaround  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
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petey twofinger
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Post by petey twofinger »

really nice work there sir ...

my humble demo featuring the op amp version courtesy of Mictetser and thanks to roseblood11 for his vero layout . love this thing !!


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Arny
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Post by Arny »

frank.clarke wrote:I remember Fripp saying his fave fuzzbox was a Burns Buzz Box, but since it was so good, they stopped making it. I vaguely recall he didn't have it for Heroes, and he said he could get his sound with any fuzz box.
Balance and Treble would suggest something different from the other tonebenders, but who knows. Interesting, thanks.

Oh, here we go with the Fripp interview:
http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/Inter ... yer_(1974)

t.[/i]
I own Arnys Shack recording Studios where I worked with Robert for over 15 years, we both come from Bournemouth and both agreed that the Burns Buzzaround was without doubt one of the best if not the best fuzz unit available.

So Robert purchased two from our local guitar supplier a Mr Don Strike, who also gave lessons Don most likely sold more
Buzzarounds than most, I also purchased one with Robert at the same time.

Robert used mine sometimes as he also used my amps this saved him bringing a lot of his gear to the studio. he put one of his Burns into his Pete Cornish board, and the other I built into a Rack for him so he had all his gear at waist height and just the Press Switches on a floor box, this in turn saved him the awkwardness of having to bend over with his Les-Paul
"Black Beauty" strapped round his shoulder or having to get off his stool which he preferred.

I'm now 79 Years old and have finally retired my role as an Engineer/Producer, I will continue my role as a Technician so a lot of my gear is for sale including my Definitive Burns Buzzarround which I'm lead to believe is quite valuable and you can be sure its totally original and works fine.

I'm told that the average price is beyond $3,000 USD so any offers above I will consider.

Many tanks for your time
Kind Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
http://www.arnys-shack.com
&
http://www.helios-electronics.com

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Arny
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Post by Arny »

Having checked values on Ebay and General any offer near $2650 USD I will except PayPal but buyer pays the PayPal
3.4% Commission

Kind Regards

Tony
Tony Arnold (Director)
www.arnys-shack.com

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beedotman
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Post by beedotman »

this is not buy/sell thread

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roseblood11
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Post by roseblood11 »

This is a thread for people who build this pedal for $30...

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Post by grrrunge »

$2600 for a fuzzbox? Meh... I think you're misjudging the audience here. Most of the guys here could build a replica for $20, and be happy with it.
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Post by grrrunge »

:applause: $30 vs $20? I guess I'm being the cheap-ass here :D
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mictester
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Post by mictester »

Just for fun, I built a few variants of the Buzzaround - a three Ge transistor "original" style, an NPN Ge "inverted original" style, a hybrid "Si in Ge out" version - with a two transistor preamp like the original, recalculated for Si transistors, and another op-amp "Buzzalike". The only differences audible in all three were:

"Original" - sounded like you're playing in a rainstorm. It really hissed badly. I messed with the transistor selection, tweaked the bias, and even tried low-pass filtering the output with a treble-boost mod to the input.... it still hissed! Terrific Fuzz, though!

The "inverted" one was less hissy, but was more "mannerly" - the insane fuzziness of the original is tamed quite a bit - not as much fun as the original.

The "hybrid" was a work of genius - very little hiss, and it sounded virtually identical to the original. Great fun, complete madness in just three transistors - highly recommended (circuit to follow shortly). Also really cheap to build ($15 if you had to buy all the parts).

The "Buzzalike" was the best of all (to my ears) - no hiss and loads of what Pink Jimi would call "Fuzzy Goodness". I used a dual op-amp, and didn't want to waste the second half of the IC, so built an output buffer. This led straight to the "Around-Ultimate-Buzz", using a quad op-amp (TL074) and a Ge transistor. This had tone shaping options on the way in and the way out, with the Ge transistor as the "fuzz engine" in the middle. The Buzzaround sounds are still all there, but there are many more available - at low noise. It occurred to me that it could be fun to have two "fuzz engines" - two different configurations of Ge Fuzz circuit perhaps, with the op-amp wrapper......

Finally - I had to try getting the Buzzaround sounds from a silicon device. I tried (re-biased, obviously) the usual Buzzaround third transistor circuit. I got quite close, but the decay was always spluttery and nasty (interesting in itself, but not the sound we're after). I tried with FETs of various types, and found that the BS170 was remarkably close, but the circuit configuration had to be changed quite significantly - not a Buzzaround at all!

It was fun making a racket for a few hours with all these variants! Sadly, this circuit only really works with a PNP Ge transistor for the Fuzz stage. However, it doesn't matter one whit how you drive it - it's that third transistor configuration that's responsible for the amazing fuzziness!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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HEAD
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Post by HEAD »

mictester wrote: [...]
The "Buzzalike" was the best of all (to my ears) - no hiss and loads of what Pink Jimi would call "Fuzzy Goodness". I used a dual op-amp, and didn't want to waste the second half of the IC, so built an output buffer. This led straight to the "Around-Ultimate-Buzz", using a quad op-amp (TL074) and a Ge transistor. This had tone shaping options on the way in and the way out, with the Ge transistor as the "fuzz engine" in the middle. The Buzzaround sounds are still all there, but there are many more available - at low noise. It occurred to me that it could be fun to have two "fuzz engines" - two different configurations of Ge Fuzz circuit perhaps, with the op-amp wrapper...... [...]
Hi Chris,

maybe we can resurrect that in the dedicated thread. Always a pleasure to try some of your ingenious designs! :o

Regards

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Post by mictester »

grrrunge wrote::applause: $30 vs $20? I guess I'm being the cheap-ass here :D
I threw together a Buzzalike Plus (it's got an active tone control) for about $16 last weekend! The case was one of a batch of blemished, dip-painted diecast boxes I bought for <£1.50 each. The blemishes are mostly where the sockets and the controls fit, so they disappear during construction! The only components that cost anything much was the Ge transistor - £0.60, the pots at £0.55 each, the relay, footswitch and the sockets. It went together in just over an hour, and was gigged two hours later!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Post by jalmonsalmon »

mictester wrote:Just for fun, . . .

The "hybrid" was a work of genius - very little hiss, and it sounded virtually identical to the original. Great fun, complete madness in just three transistors - highly recommended (circuit to follow shortly). Also really cheap to build ($15 if you had to buy all the parts) . . .
Cannot wait to check out the hybrid that you have in the works!
:popcorn:

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Post by Arny »

beedotman wrote:this is not buy/sell thread
I thought its members maybe interested to know there is an original somewhere
in fact there's three all together.

When any FX Pedal is for sale outside of this Forum how come a member notifys
the other members with a LINK,

It's obvious to me what your real problem is ! ?

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Tony (Arny)

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Post by Arny »

roseblood11 wrote:This is a thread for people who build this pedal for $30...
Your statement is only partly true, nevertheless you or other members might want
to be sure their replica sounds like the real thing, when they have got it right they
can then sell the real thing on or even hire it out for others to check how theirs sound.

I will hire this original out if a member is interested.

When I say listen and compare I mean in the flesh in a pure anologue ambience
atmosphere, not by judging with a digital source of sound, as this can not be a true
comparison, believe me I have heard many replicas but have yet hear heard a replica
that sounds anything like an Original in the flesh, and Robert and I have three in which
to test one of our others.

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Tony
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Arny
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Post by Arny »

Arny wrote:
beedotman wrote:this is not buy/sell thread
I thought its members maybe interested to know there is an original somewhere
in fact there's three all together.

When any FX Pedal is for sale outside of this Forum how come a member notifys
the other members with a LINK,

Please note that there happens to be another member advertising a sale on this
same thread , how come you have ignored that post ?

It's obvious to me what your real problem is ! ?

Kind Regards

Tony (Arny)

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Post by Arny »

Arny wrote:
beedotman wrote:this is not buy/sell thread
Also please note their is a member advertising something for sale on this very thread

I repeat
It's obvious to me what your real problem is ! ?

Kind Regards

Tony (Arny)

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Post by Arny »

grrrunge wrote:$2600 for a fuzzbox? Meh... I think you're misjudging the audience here. Most of the guys here could build a replica for $20, and be happy with it.
I'm sure your right Mr Grunge and that I endorse fully
BUT
There are some who would love to compare in the flesh (On the Spot) the sound of their replica to an original
Some members will be fully aware that a digital recording even in Wave format does not compare to be stood
by the source of sound.

Kind Regards

Tony (Arny)

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Post by jalmonsalmon »

hehee
$2650 = $883.34 per NKT213 :P

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Post by DrNomis »

I've got some Philco Surface Barrier Transistors which I might try using to build a Buzzaround, the Transistors check out as Silicon types on my Semiconductor analyser, but I know that they are Germanium types.....should be pretty interesting..... :thumbsup
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Post by mictester »

Arny wrote:Robert and I have three in which to test one of our others.
Sadly your Buzzaround won't sound anything like it did when it was new. The capacitors will have aged (and not in a good way) and the pots will have dirt in them changing their characteristics. There will be numerous other changes - modern batteries will have a significantly lower impedance than the vintage zinc / carbon ones that it would have used originally, for example.

I've tested the original Buzzalike against several other ways of building and driving that third stage, and apart from differing levels of hiss, they all sound much the same. It's also good to isolate the output stage through an active buffer to protect it from the outside world and to provide a nice low output impedance so that it can drive long cables without treble loss. Two Buzzaround owners around here have shelved their 1960s originals and use Buzzalikes - both are considering selling their originals now that they seem to command such insane prices!

This afternoon, I heard an all silicon Buzzalike that sounded very much like the original, but without the infernal rainstorm sound effect! The guy who'd constructed it had copied the principle of the Buzzaround third stage, but replicated it using an under-biased and overdriven low gain silicon device....

Incidentally - the Beatles never recorded using their Buzzarounds because EMI considered them too hissy for the studio.
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"

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Post by Arny »

mictester wrote:
Arny wrote:Robert and I have three in which to test one of our others.
Sadly your Buzzaround won't sound anything like it did when it was new. The capacitors will have aged (and not in a good way) and the pots will have dirt in them changing their characteristics. There will be numerous other changes - modern batteries will have a significantly lower impedance than the vintage zinc / carbon ones that it would have used originally, for example.
Incidentally - the Beatles never recorded using their Buzzarounds because EMI considered them too hissy for the studio.
Sadly You are assuming
Let me tell you the story about the sad assuming Entertaiments manager
An entertainments manager was asked to put on a variety show at his local Towns Theatre.

He advertised for original talented artists to make an appointment in order to appear on the show. among the many
acts, i.e. Magicians, Comedians, Singers etc one guy turned up as an imitator.

On entering the managers office from the waiting room, the manager asked the guy what the main original masterpiece theme of his act,

Oh said the guy "I imitate a bird ".

The arrogant rude assuming manager replied
"Look mate I have more bird imitators than I'll ever need, that type of act is not original and I would thank you to not
waste my valuable time, so please do me the favour by vacating my office"

At that, the Guy flew out of the managers window !.

First your assuming we only have the one Burns, no we have three in order to compare.

Next Your telling me about electronics, assuming I know nothing
I never aproached Ampex, Helios or AD&R to handle their European Servicing & Spares these three major
companies approached me after seeing and experiencing some of my work.

You also assume that I don't service my gear or Roberts, being 79 years and involved in Electroncs for the past
59 Years I have enough Tube Germanium etc spares and components , that would make your hair curl, including every component required to build an EXACT REPLICA of an original Burns Buzzaround and before you ask those Burns spares include a spare steel case.

Robert never recorded at Abbey Road but he did in many other studios some with Bowie no studio asked him to
switch off his Burns as he knew how to control it which is why an original is so sort after today.

Could you send me a Link proofing that the Beatles tried to use a Burns Buzzaround because I have worked once
with George Martin, and knowing what I know, George tried to maintain the naivety that was in the Beatles then
by even allowing Ringo to choose an AKG D190 as apposed to the Standard practice for BD the superior D30, D25 or D12.

Kind Regards

Tony
www.helios-electronics.com
www.ampex-uk.com
www.arnys-shack.com
www.cafe-au-go-go.com

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