Baldwin-Burns - Buzzaround  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
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frank.clarke
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Post by frank.clarke »

You could use SI for Q1 and Q2 for less noise, for HiFi Fuzz fans.

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Post by royaltoots »

graemey wrote:The Balance Pot:

Mine shows a reading of 6k when I measured it in the pedal so 4.7k or 5k is about right.

I plugged in and noticed the following...
Sustain at zero = no sound
Sustain up 15% = Balance not 'gated' and Timbre increases in volume as it is turned to treble side
Sustain up full = Balance 'gated' in lower settings and Timbre still increases in volume as it is turned to treble side
So the Balance control is so-called as it is used to 'balance' the vol fluctuations as the Timbre is used to shape tone.

Ok guys, can anyone help a with a simple question?
If I build a Buzzaround clone, should all the pots be log or lin type?
(Im quite new to electronics)
Cheers!
Graemey
Thanks Graemey - this useful info for comparison - I'm not getting much variation with the Timbre pot on mine at the moment so should check the values for the two caps there maybe.

To answer your question - definitely a lin pot for Timbre, but beyond that .... the Elka Dizzy Tone version uses reverse log pots for Balance and Sustain, which is quite odd, plus these are not so easy to find - I've used lin in mine, just because I seem to have loads of them. I have drawn up a (now verified) stripboard layout, once I've tidied it up I'll post it (if no one else does one in the meantime).
The Elka is the same circuit with different transistors and values for some components, so the layout will be annotated for both versions - I plan to build both anyway, it will be interesting to compare them.

I don't have much time between now and next monday to do anymore work on it, but so far I'm slightly bemused - it sounded amazing through my battery powered Ruby amp, but lost a lot of high end fuzziness when I switched to a 'proper' amp, and sounds more like a distortion than a fuzz at the moment, and quite wooffy. I tried some other transistors but they all sounded misbiased/gated/bad - maybe will try an Si or 2 next week.

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Alex Frias
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Post by Alex Frias »

Good to hear from you, Mr Graemey!

Well, I think I'm close to the original, even though I built a NPN version. The only diference in behaviour between your original unit and my rumble clone is about the filter action. Mine doesn't show a big variation in output level as you describe. The rest is the same as you wrote. The sound is lovely and it's a very quiet fuzz as you think how long sustain it can offer.

Few years ago I was in a course by Guitar Craft, in Argentina, directed by Robert Fripp. As I arrived early and Robert too, I had an opportunity to have some friendly talking with him. So I just asked for the old stuff like the Fuzzaround. He seemed not very interested in this boring matter, so he just said he has a lot of stuff, but not very reliable things. He was way more interested in the beautiful place we were and the amazing Andes view we got from that point. Aside from the exceptional musician and public person he is, how sweet, funny and polite is this man. A real gentleman!

I don't intend to mimic Robert's sound or playing, including the fact that I'm not even close to the Fripp's technique, but with this pedal... well, what a temptation! :oops:

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MoreCowbell
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Post by MoreCowbell »

graemey wrote:The Balance Pot:

Mine shows a reading of 6k when I measured it in the pedal so 4.7k or 5k is about right.
Thanks for the info !


UPDATED SCHEMATIC
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BURNS BUZZAROUND.GIF

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Post by WhiteKeyHole »

Might want to fix the "4" of the 4.7uF cap just before SUSTAIN. Just for clarity.

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MoreCowbell
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Post by MoreCowbell »

WhiteKeyHole wrote:Might want to fix the "4" of the 4.7uF cap just before SUSTAIN. Just for clarity.
weird...its fine on my file.

i'm gonna leave it "as is"...otherwise there will be WAY too many schematics in this thread and it will just get confusing for people.

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royaltoots
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Post by royaltoots »

I've updated my schem to specify it's based on the DAM pics and Kris' Elka version (so diff from yours), so people can distinguish between the two.

mine is here http://usera.imagecave.com/simonm/schem/buzzaround.JPG

Had a half hour spare last night and fixed a problem with my build - now it sounds amazing, but I'm going to need that volume pot on the side of the enclosure! I like the sound of an OC71 in Q1 for now, and two NOS NKT213s - hfe around 60-70? I did test but can't remember the values, higher gain 2G381 - about 130? - in Q3 was too screechy for me. OC71 = fatter sound.

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Completed builds: Tonebender Mk II w/ 3 OC75's, Burns BuzzAround w/NKT 275,Rangemaster w/ OC44, Fuzz Face w/ SKS363's, CJOD, Harmonic Percolator w/2N404A & 2N3635(vintage correct box,sliding pots, 1%glass resistors),Stack-O-Dimes & Whipple Wahs,
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Post by noelgrassy »

This thread has been awesome considering what I knew about these rare pedals. Dave's custom run is possibly his finest re-creation I've seen & heard. It sounds unmistakeably like Fripp's tone ca. Giles, Giles & Fripp up to the Islands release. When I saw KC in 1974, Fripps fuzz had changed dramatically, but I defy anyone to say he fucked it up!
The fuzz from the Burns unit is somehow a little more precious. Like you'ld acknowledge it's aggressive distortion vibe [no doubt], but a gentleman would'nt be ashamed to use it in mixed company either. I'm sorry I can't be a little more descriptive for those that have no idea of the limited choices we had as guitarists in those days.
One knew instinctively that Beck's sound was in his dick beaters, forget that avenue. Bill Nelson, Brian May, Steve Hillage there were guitar sounds brought by the god's emmissarys. I assumed it was their "studio tone" not a realistic in live performances [untill I saw them live.]
Bobby Fripp's fuzz was somehow familiar but none of the guitar stores had anything remotely sounding like him.
So with these recent detailed pics--

I've gathered as many vintage correct components as I could to build this but knew I'd have to use perfboard to lash it together. Today while trying to organize my shop, I found a small stack of those original boards with components still hanging like Remoras.
But, I shitchoonot, 12 forked lugs on either long side. I'm thinking these originated in a one celled Hammond organism but that's mostly a guess. My compulsion to collect everything in my path only functions after switching off
1] Common Sense
2] Good Judgement
3] and I forget the last couple. :horsey:
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graemey
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Post by graemey »

How happy am I???
Just finished my clone circuit and not only did it work, it sounds fantastic!
Here's the scene in my room a few moments ago as I compared the clone to the burns...
More details to follow.
Attachments
DSCN0772.JPG
DSCN0771.JPG
DSCN0770.JPG

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MoreCowbell
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Post by MoreCowbell »

graemey wrote:How happy am I???
Just finished my clone circuit and not only did it work, it sounds fantastic!
Here's the scene in my room a few moments ago as I compared the clone to the burns...
More details to follow.


:D

VERY cool ! Did you use the latest version of my schemo (5k balance pot) ?

Hopefully it compares well to your original...great to have the ability to do a "side by side" comparison.

Of course there will be variation due to parts variance and type, but it should give us an idea of the schematics' accuracy.

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graemey
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Post by graemey »

VERY cool ! Did you use the latest version of my schemo (5k balance pot) ?

Hopefully it compares well to your original...great to have the ability to do a "side by side" comparison.

Of course there will be variation due to parts variance and type, but it should give us an idea of the schematics' accuracy.[/quote]



Yes, I worked out my perf board layout from your diagram and all seems very accurate, thank you for posting it!
I actually used a 10k bal pot (thats all I had lying around) but I will replace it with a 5k soon as I can.
First impressions of the clone: it sounds like a Buzzaround!
I need to set an hour aside to really compare and when I do I will post more details.
I used the first three transistors that I pulled from the packet and the sound is superb with NO hiss but a little more gain than the Burns,
not quite as sensitive to volume control changes from the guitar. I need to experiment with some other trannys perhaps?

All in all, I am SO happy with my clone. I might make a Youtube video showing a side by side comparison.
Watch this space...
Graemey.

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Post by RiGLEY »

Looking forward to the video graemey!
Your other one, demonstrating the original is great!
I might try to build this pedal. Great work guys!

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MoreCowbell
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Post by MoreCowbell »

More Cowbell wrote:VERY cool ! Did you use the latest version of my schemo (5k balance pot) ?

Hopefully it compares well to your original...great to have the ability to do a "side by side" comparison.

Of course there will be variation due to parts variance and type, but it should give us an idea of the schematics' accuracy.
graemey wrote: Yes, I worked out my perf board layout from your diagram and all seems very accurate, thank you for posting it!
I actually used a 10k bal pot (thats all I had lying around) but I will replace it with a 5k soon as I can.
First impressions of the clone: it sounds like a Buzzaround!
Excellent ! I need to find time to build this one too...
I need to set an hour aside to really compare and when I do I will post more details.
I used the first three transistors that I pulled from the packet and the sound is superb with NO hiss but a little more gain than the Burns,
not quite as sensitive to volume control changes from the guitar. I need to experiment with some other trannys perhaps?
Q1 and Q2 should probably be low gain, and Q3 higher...just a guess, but Q1, Q2 =hfe 50-80 or so, and Q3 >100hfe should work nicely. Like I say, just a guess though.


All in all, I am SO happy with my clone. I might make a Youtube video showing a side by side comparison.
Watch this space...
Graemey.

I hope you do....I would definitely be interested in seeing it !

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Post by seniorLoco »

Btw ...any good source for NKT's :shock: :D
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Post by noelgrassy »

Alex Frias, BTW,
That was a fascinating anecdote you shared with us. I appreciate when I get to chat with one of my heroes.
The truly great ones have always been affable, humble, generous and witty as you described. :thumbsup
Did the course have one or two concepts that have changed the way you play with
positive results? How many days or hours does he give you?
I'm taking an intensely focused course of one day with 2 or 3 others at Bob Brozman's home in August.
If I can leave with 1/1000th of the grasp that fellow has on bottleneck guitar(let alone his vast knowledge of
the world's music), I will feel it was worth it. He's always seemed like such a natural proponent for blues,
swing, etc. that I never really thought about his conceptual framework behind the music.
:wink: I'll gladly share any PDF's or other notation with any interested parties.
Bonus!
{He's preparing 2 meals for us apparently. Well, probably his chef or something similar.}
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Post by royaltoots »

seniorLoco wrote:Btw ...any good source for NKT's :shock: :D
this UK ebay seller has some, or at least he did a couple of weeks ago - I got 20. I've already told a couple of people about it, now the secret's out!

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/norgser

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Post by graemey »

royaltoots wrote:
seniorLoco wrote:Btw ...any good source for NKT's :shock: :D
this UK ebay seller has some, or at least he did a couple of weeks ago - I got 20. I've already told a couple of people about it, now the secret's out!

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/norgser


Must admit I got a bunch from this guy also.

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Post by omarvolta »

Well hello, I don't post here much but I have been following this thread and since I put this together last night I thought I would post my findings.
Built using MoreCowbell's schematic, all linear pots and transistors from SmallBear(took them from my Tone Bender build), just to try(I need to get me some NKT213s!). It works!
The Sustain control works just as Graemey says, no sound at zero and increases in volume/saturation when turned CW. Timbre, if by treble side Mr Graemey means Clock Wise(because it gets bassier), then it works justs as Graemey has informed. Now, Balance... it doesn't do much in mine. Maybe I wired it wrong or it's the different transistors, but it's working pretty much like the Sustain control( No volume at zero and then increases in volume CW). Thats all i got for now.
Oh, and Muchas Gracias to Graemey for all of his info. I fell in love with this fuzz box through his video. Thanks a lot sir! Peace...
"Play from your fu*#%ng heart!!!!" Bill Hicks.

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Post by seniorLoco »

royaltoots wrote:
seniorLoco wrote:Btw ...any good source for NKT's :shock: :D
this UK ebay seller has some, or at least he did a couple of weeks ago - I got 20. I've already told a couple of people about it, now the secret's out!

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/norgser
oh thanks ...but a wee bit late as it s empty now :(

No worries ... maybe a silicon hybrid :hmmm:
"Curiosity may have killed the cat, but it saved the mice, who ate the cheese."

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Post by royaltoots »

seniorLoco wrote:
royaltoots wrote:
seniorLoco wrote:Btw ...any good source for NKT's :shock: :D
this UK ebay seller has some, or at least he did a couple of weeks ago - I got 20. I've already told a couple of people about it, now the secret's out!

http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/norgser
oh thanks ...but a wee bit late as it s empty now :(
it's worth checking with him - when I bought mine he still had 13 lots of 20 NOS each left - that's 260 - I think he's only sold about 100 more since then - send him a message

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