Colorsound - Vocalizer

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
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theehman
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Post by theehman »

Found this auction posted over at the "other" forum.....

http://cgi.ebay.ca/SUPER-RARE-COLORSOUN ... 3f0a12ca66


Relevant pics from the auction:
$(KGrHqIOKpcE3J,RS2B8BNyrfKWhpg~~_3.JPG
$(KGrHqIOKpcE3J,RS2B8BNyrfKWhpg~~_3.JPG (59.88 KiB) Viewed 4362 times
$(KGrHqIOKpkE26L3RhNqBNyrfOr+6g~~_3.JPG
$(KGrHqIOKpkE26L3RhNqBNyrfOr+6g~~_3.JPG (66.32 KiB) Viewed 4362 times
$(KGrHqQOKiIE3DzvZS2IBNyrfP77GQ~~_3.JPG
$(KGrHqQOKiIE3DzvZS2IBNyrfP77GQ~~_3.JPG (51.39 KiB) Viewed 4362 times
Super rare Colorsound Vocalizer in box. 9.5/10 condition with original box. Works 100% and sounds AMAZING. These are so painfully rare, and to find one in this condition and in the original box(been buying/collecting vintage and boutique pedals for over 16+ years and I've never seen another).

This is basically a manual sweep Dipthonizer, but WAY more vocal(and a few prominent collectors who have heard this have commented similarly), and way more quite and stable. Has a fuzz control to blend in to dramatize the vocal effect, like the Dipthonizer, but either way sounds awesome...really must hear to believe.
Probably similar to the EH Talking Pedal.
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Post by toneman »

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Post by toneman »

this is in wrong thread section Mr moderator.
should be in vintage. easier to find.. :)
thanx for the headsup EHman :!:
yeh, sounds like the EH Talking Pedal. :hmmm:
8)
Last edited by RnFR on 23 May 2011, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: topic moved- thanks!
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Post by theehman »

toneman wrote:this is in wrong thread section Mr moderator.
should be in vintage. easier to find.. :)
thanx for the headsup EHman :!:
yeh, sounds like the EH Talking Pedal. :hmmm:
8)
The pedal is stamped 1979 therefore I put it in the Modern section.
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Post by toneman »

When did the Dipthonizer come out?

What about the EH Talking Pedal?

Aren't all the Colorsound pedals considered "vintage"??

Inquiring minds and all that......... :D
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Post by grizzlytone »

I traced it a few years back, here's the schematic;
Attachments
Colorsound Vocalizer schematic -eget.bmp
Colorsound Vocalizer schematic -eget.bmp (996.19 KiB) Viewed 4241 times

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Post by borislavgajic »

Thanks for that schem........!
one filter is moved by pot, and other one is driven with ca3080 acting as variabile resistor..............so it is 1/2 talkingpedal and 1/2 dipthonizer............could be interesting....

I am going to build this one :horsey: .......are there trace side photos availyble please?

Boris

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Post by toneman »

I *knew* Boris was interested in this :lol:

Thanx for the schemo GTone :!: :!:

Interesting combo with the 1/2 N' 1/2 :wink:

I've been comparing the filter caps on the Talking Pedal, the Dipthonizer, and the BiFilter Follower.
All 3 use MulitpleFeedbackFilters (MFBF).
Good sounding if tuned in the right spot(s).
afn
T 8)
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Post by grizzlytone »

borislavgajic wrote:Thanks for that schem........!
one filter is moved by pot, and other one is driven with ca3080 acting as variabile resistor..............so it is 1/2 talkingpedal and 1/2 dipthonizer............could be interesting....

I am going to build this one :horsey: .......are there trace side photos availyble please?

Boris
The way to make a "vocal"/Vowel sounding sweepable filter is to have 2 or more (tinkerers potential here...) filter peaks move in unison but in a non-linear fashion in respect to eachother; The peaks are closing in on eachother or moving apart (depending on the direction of the sweep); one simple way to accomplish this is to have one filter move in a linear fashion (in this case adjusted directly by a linear pot (top filter in schem) and have the other filter adjusted in a logarithmic fashion (in this case by way of a Lin-log conversion using a bipolar transistor controlled by a linear pot > log current through transitor controlling linear OTA acting as variable resistor. Bottom filter)
The EH Talking Pedal accomplished this by using a special design dual gang pot with different curves/taper on each carbon track, Nothing you can get of the shelf and supposedly the reason "why the talking pedal will cannot be cloned".
Here's the PCB. Go Go Boris Go
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Vocalizer PCB layout.pdf
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Post by grizzlytone »

I wish I could edit my post to correct my spelling mistakes.
Anyways, If I could I would add s to transistor and remove will

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Post by borislavgajic »

grizzlytone wrote:I wish I could edit my post to correct my spelling mistakes.
Anyways, If I could I would add s to transistor and remove will

man you are more than just a kind person..... :hug: :D
thanks a lot........this will save me some time......

Boris

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Post by R.G. »

grizzlytone wrote:
borislavgajic wrote: The way to make a "vocal"/Vowel sounding sweepable filter is to have 2 or more (tinkerers potential here...) filter peaks move in unison but in a non-linear fashion in respect to eachother; The peaks are closing in on eachother or moving apart (depending on the direction of the sweep)
Also see:
1999: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/w ... icewah.htm
2001: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/sing-wah/sing-wah.htm

What you need to do is to make F2 rise linearly from about 800Hz to 2400Hz, while F1 rises from about 300Hz to 1kHz, then declines back to about 300Hz. As the charts of formants show, it's not quite as simple as making them move in unison but nonlinearly. For even better articulation, adding F3 is better, and there is a "singing formant" at about 3kHz that distinguishes the singing voice in trained singers. If the formants don't happen to be in the right relationship, you get sound, but it's not a recognizable vowel, or you get the slightly-less usefull "uuhh" vowel.

I have on the drawing board now a two-filter vowel wah that uses some waveshaping circuits to make the formants move in the right relationship to get all vowel sounds. I was planning to use an 8-pin uC to read a pot then put out the right voltages to control a pair of VCFs to ensure a progression of vowels in any order, table driven, but realized that the average pedal hacker would see "uC" and give up. So I used a few dual opamps and approximated.

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Post by RnFR »

so that's what a formant is! thanks guys.
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Post by toneman »

The Dipthonizer uses the 4-position switch to select the up/down sweep combo for each of two format filters.
A dipthong is two vowels one after the other without a break. Example: the "OU" in HOUSE.

Here is an interesting vocal simulator link:
from this main page:
http://www.falstad.com/mathphysics.html

actual applet:
http://www.falstad.com/vowel/

challenge:
take an "ahhhhh" and make it a "Laahhhhh"

8)
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Post by borislavgajic »

how would two Mutron III filters sound in this combination???

Boris

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Post by pinkjimiphoton »

built one...

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Post by borislavgajic »

Thanks for demmoing ..........nice video!

but it seems that Vocalizer is less talking than Dipthonizer(and EH TalkingPedal)...? there is no AEEEE OOOUUUH EEEAAAAIIII type of sounds....or I am not right? :scratch:

never mind....great build :thumbsup

thanks

Boris

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Post by pinkjimiphoton »

yah boris, it's more like a really mouthy wah. it's weird. just past what you hear on the demo, if you turn the treadle the last 10% or so, it DOES seem to hit a formant sound...that's why i'm wondering if the wah pot is actually 2.2 k instead of 22 k.

the schem is absolutely wrong, where the 22k dual pot is shown. if we number the terminals of the pot like a dpdt switch, this is the "correct" way to wire it


as it turns out, i think the schematic is wrong. it's working now, i set it up like this....

think of the terminals of the dual pot like you would a dpdt

1 6
2 5
3 4

so i wired it like this (as per your layout color code):

1 purple
2 blue
3 GROUND
4 no connection
5 gray
6 white

here's a verofied vero other than the pot wiring (which matches the schematic), done by dino:

Image

anyways, it works...but is nothing like the diphonizer!! nothing like the eh pedal, either. more like a wah wah. when ya sweep the pedal, sometimes you can get a "yaioy" kinda sound but ....mostly, it's just a wah wah bro.
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Post by borislavgajic »

Thanks for sharing your experience! :thumbsup

nice sounding russian pedal you made....could you share schem for that? I have some russian trannys too.......I really like how it cleans up with guitar pot........

cheers

Boris

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Post by pinkjimiphoton »

hi boris,
sure, i can share that when i get a chance...i think it's in my photobucket.

here's a layout

Image

i don't have a schematic for it tho, it's really just a fuzzface jh2 set up for pnp germaniums with a 1n34a ge asymetrical clipper at the end. the trannies are russian mp16b's. glad ya like the fuzz. it sounds pretty good. you may wanna add a reverse biased 1n34a between the collector and base i think it is of the trannys so they're more temperature resistant.
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