Carlsbro - Suzz Phase

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Hi , my friend gave me this pedal / desktop unit a few years back .
It is an original prototype before they released the suzz phase models ,
It is about 10" x 7" and has 4 knobs on top
2 knobs for fuzz (overdrive) and 2 for Phaser (depth and speed)
there are two loose wires inside that look as if they should connect to somewhere , they could just be for a battery ?
The phaser works so clean and stark !
But the Fuzz only seems to work on full turn of the knobs and then its way too much ?
I am mostly concerned that none of the potentiometers respond until about 12:00 on the dials , so as it is a prototype then something needs adding or perhaps rewiring , I do like the phaser side but the Fuzz has no use at the moment , I would love to see a Suzz Phaser Schematic of released models to maybe make sense of where this is at , It is a shame that it doesn't get any use for the last few years , any info or advice extremely welcome or I might sell it on ebay to someone who wants it .
Thanks Jazzur.

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Yes I want it. PM me and save yourself the ebay trouble.

But a little more on a broader perspective;

Welcome to this place where we, among a lot of other things, good or bad, pretty or ugly, rude or sweet, have an interest in pedals. Common pedals but also oddities. What you write is that you have an oddity. An oddity, for a small group of people, is a piece of history. Some dig up pottery out of the ground . Some dig up scarce information which fits in puzzles how effects manufacturers and designers came up with new/alternate sounds. This may be of litle importace for many and tha bomb for those fewgeeks. And that means that before ebaying it off there would be a lot more that would be really happy with a few decent photos. And based on the quality of those photo's there's a good chance you get help getting that pedal fixed.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
toneman
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 343
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 13:05
my favorite amplifier: anything that works
Completed builds: meatolation, wobolation, ringolation clones, PAiA synths/modulars, dipthonizer clone, MOTM modules, pedal mods and repairs
Location: sacatomatoes, Kali4neeaa
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Post by toneman »

Well said, dirk!
8)
Tone-to-the-Bone

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Great Reply Dirk , I see I have found the right forum !
I have just charged my Camera and will be posting photos in next couple of hours (inside and out) , I have thought the pedal is of great importance and havn't tried any amateur repairs for that reason .
I respect that someone else might appreciate this more than myself , ? But would like to get it working before I resign to that fact .
I have a Fender Rhodes Piano and many pedals ... I really want an authentic 70's Herbie Hancock / Mizell Brothers type feel to my setup , so have been collecting information and pedals accordingly , I would 'like' to have all kinds of experimental pedals , but can't justify the expense so will be concentrating on authenticity first !

Pedals I have:
Morley Fuzz Wah , that also has No Fuzz working properly (So I should read up on fuzz circuits / schematics to get both this and the Suzz working).
Maestro PS-1a Phase Shifter , That I really love . (Perfect condition)
EH Small Stone (Original 3rd issue '81) I used to use with Rhodes a lot, but Maestro is better .
EH Doctro Q Envelope Filter (Original '79 issue) I love for Rhythm Guitar.
DHA Bass PreAmp (small company custom made pre I bought for Rhodes but better on The Bass Guitar, Nice Valvey PreAmp)
EH Bass Micro Synth - (Tatty '90s Reissue, very nice sound and most recent pedal I am still getting to grips with)
Morley Power Wah Re-issue .. Nice but horrible curve( think I need to experiment with Pots/control )
Art M3 Pre Amp ... surprisingly useful clever cheap Pre Amp !
Ibanez AD-80 Delay ('79 Original small button) Until I might sometime find an Echoplex 3 (for the moveably playback head)

I want:
Musitronics Mu-tron III Filter - (Not cheap but damn useful )
Art Dual RDB Reamper (for bringing Synths down to a passive level (apparently , or maybe get a Radial one instead)
Fender Twin Silver face AMP (one day)
MXR 90 Phase pedal - (i have owned 2 that were supposed to be original but both had been repaired badly) sounded cack !
Passive inline Compressor Sustainer , (perhaps try BOSS but need more advice and info)
Passive Inline E/q pedal (again BOSS maybe ? need advice)
Fuzz Face (unless I like either the Suzz Phase or Morley Fuzz Wah working properly )
Chorus Pedal for 80's Slapback Bass guitar setup! (reading up on this )

Other Instruments I have :
Oberheim Matrix 1000
Oberheim DMX w/MIDI
AKAI MPC 2000XL
Fender Rhodes 73
Rhodes 760 Midi keyboard
Electrix Filter Queen
Bass Guitar (unbranded weird excellent)
Strat copy (cheap Chinese thing , that gets so much use !)

Thought I would add all the above as maybe someone might offer a trade that I could use .
OK thanks for reading and I will get on with those Photo's next thing.

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Ok, photos as promised , you can see the 20p in the 4th photo to see the size to scale , it's quite big , about 8" across and a desktop module. Obviously the well known Carlsbro pink banner .. which is larger than any banner I've seen on any pedal ... the left section is for the Fuzz and the right for the Phaser and toggle switches for on off or both on/off , not sure about the top switches I think the fuzz is for guitar/bass or extra boost , the top switch on the phaser is I think extra phase colour , and the yellow and red early type square l.e.d's . Thanks for your interest and any advice welcome .
Top view
Top view
rear view
rear view
rear view
rear view
Top with scale
Top with scale
inside
inside
inside controls
inside controls
inside PCB
inside PCB
inside ribbon connection
inside ribbon connection
inside showing the unconnected wires ?
inside showing the unconnected wires ?

User avatar
tube-exorcist
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 445
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 20:09
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Post by tube-exorcist »

1.) I highly doubt that this is a "prototype before they released the suzz phase". At this time the use of flat-cables with this connectors was very uncommon.

2.) As you can see here:
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/ca ... /suzzphase
the "pink banner" was used on the production units (with less switches).

3.) Therefore I suspect that someone LATER took the pcb and the "banner" from a production unit and made his own unit with more switches.

4.) With the term "a few decent photos" is ment to take out the pcb´s and take pictures of the track/solder-side too and some close-up pictures of the component side. This because "based on the quality of those photo's there's a good chance you get help getting that pedal fixed" and without the pictures mentioned above your chance to get some decent help is near zero.
"I've noticed there's an inverse relationship between cost of gear and talent. If you need the most expensive gear to get decent tones, then you suck as a player."

User avatar
toneman
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 343
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 13:05
my favorite amplifier: anything that works
Completed builds: meatolation, wobolation, ringolation clones, PAiA synths/modulars, dipthonizer clone, MOTM modules, pedal mods and repairs
Location: sacatomatoes, Kali4neeaa
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Post by toneman »

Nice pics jazzur!!

looks like 4 741s for the phaser......

maybe 2 jfets, in sockets, next to the ICs....

looks like just one tranny for the fuzz, er, I mean Suzz....

knobs could be Fuzz, Speed, Depth, Output (?)

thanks for your efforts, jazzur!!

:applause:
Tone-to-the-Bone

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Thanks for the photo's. :thumbsup
After that I had a similar impression as Tube-exorcist states in the first sentence of his "1)".

Traceside pics of the suzz phase PCB are easily found through google.

What I'd be most interested in for now is traceside pics of the alternative PCB's and a "combed" drawing of the wiring. In this "spagetti" situation it's hard ot make sense about what is what.

And for those photo's.
Wait for a weekend day and use daylight ;)
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

So you think it's probably just a rehoused suzz phase pedal !
Did carlsbro use these LARGE pink banners on other things like AMPS , I have never seen one so BIG from any Carlsbro pedal ..
Interesting about the use of the Ribbon cable , not sure what date they came out ?
What date were the Suzz line introduced ?

I might take photo's of the PCB if I intend to modify it sometime .. I personally think PCB is working as expected but experimenting with different size Pots might give more range and control of the dials ?

I really need to find schematics / diagrams of stock Suzz Phase pedals and then establish what has been added rightly / wrongly !

Glad my photo's helped answer the main question of whether this is prototype or re housed experiment!

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Jazzur wrote: I have never seen one so BIG from any Carlsbro pedal ..
I know few "stompboxes" that are as big as the carlsbro ALU's ;)
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/ca ... /suzzphase
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
tube-exorcist
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 445
Joined: 05 Jul 2007, 20:09
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Post by tube-exorcist »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote: Traceside pics of the suzz phase PCB are easily found through google.
Cool, than your Google is better than mine. Could you please do me a favour and post your Google-result of the Suzz Phase PCB traceside ?
"I've noticed there's an inverse relationship between cost of gear and talent. If you need the most expensive gear to get decent tones, then you suck as a player."

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

I know few "stompboxes" that are as big as the carlsbro ALU's ;)
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/ca ... /suzzphase
Hey Dirk ... that is not as big, look carefully at the depth and proportion of the banner and you will see that this is not that suzz phases banner .... I would like to find an exact match to once and for all identify this banner/pedal.

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

A couple of photos of the PCB tracer side ... It's pretty obvious the PCB was designed for 2 pots originally ...
tracer side main PCB 2
tracer side main PCB 2
Tracer side main PCB
Tracer side main PCB

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Please! (Really!!!) Daylight, no flash and the macro function.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
toneman
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 343
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 13:05
my favorite amplifier: anything that works
Completed builds: meatolation, wobolation, ringolation clones, PAiA synths/modulars, dipthonizer clone, MOTM modules, pedal mods and repairs
Location: sacatomatoes, Kali4neeaa
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Post by toneman »

I put the bottom pics thru photopaint and they lighten up very well.

do U need me to upload them, dirk, or do U want them direct?

lmk
8)
Tone-to-the-Bone

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

I can do a lot with pics not showing details. Often when figuring out the circuit a poorly visible trace often becomes self-explanatory. What I cannot is guess values the type of components hidden under flatcables. Let alone do so from a photo that's too small.

This is what I've done so far. Now I want help again.
suzzphase-silk.jpg
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:.... What I cannot is guess values the type of components hidden under flatcables. Let alone do so from a photo that's too small.

This is what I've done so far. Now I want help again.
I can´t read this cry for help without acting. Here are the missing parts. For the phaser a look at the MXR Phase 45 schematic could be helpful. The Suzz part isn´t really a Carlsboro Suzz instead it is a "Carlsbro Sustain", consisting of an op-amp gain stage followed by a FET. Resistor from opamp to Fet probably 4k7, capacitor 220n, followed by a resistor to ground with 22k. Drain resistor 10 k, source resistor 1k, Pot value unknown (maybe 5k). Ta-capacitor in parallel is between 22µ and 47µ. And now back to the planes.... :wink:
Attachments
Carlsbro_suzzphase-silk_edit.png
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Sorry I haven't got back sooner, do you need to know the values of the components that you have highlighted green ?
Are you building a clone ?
Hope you can help me fix mine , I am thinking of reducing mine back to the original PCB and find the right wiring to that ??
I have four Pots currently fitted and assume that two of them are originally from that main PCB !
Are you thinking of designing and ordering a PCB or do you etch your own ?
OK let me know If I can help you out.

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Also what software are you using to draw that layout ?

I have a copy of Eagle if thats what you use then you could send me the file and I could just add in the values !!

Also have an old version of DIYlayout ?

I suppose if we are in compatible I could just use you picture as a background and then put labels on top ?

either way I'm glad that we can soon get to understanding this board .

User avatar
Jazzur
Information
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Jan 2014, 18:44
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Jazzur »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote: I know few "stompboxes" that are as big as the carlsbro ALU's ;)
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/ca ... /suzzphase
On that original Suzz Phase photo there is a 1=GAIN and 2=SPEED pots , My rehoused version has four knobs 1=GAIN 2=??? 3=DEPTH 4=SPEED I had assumed that the original would have had 1=SPEED 2=DEPTH , now I see why they called it a Suzz phase as the overdrive/fuzz was integral ... I also see why it was rehoused and modified .. as I find phasers with depth especially useful when used with different instruments with varying gain and impedances . Although a DEPTH mod would have to be done better as this current one is not too good! Lets just get it back to standard whilst taking notes of how the current mod attempts have been added.

Post Reply