Analogman - King of Tone  [traced]

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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Cigla tel. » 27 Mar 2019, 19:06

Seiche wrote:
However, there is not one PRO musician who tried it and remained visibly disappointed in the nature of the sound of this device.


don't you mean "didn't remain visibly disappointed"? As in they were disappointed because they expected more?

I also wasn't that fond of it, especially the pairing of playing both sides at the same time. It felt difficult to get a good sound in my opinion. I would prefer a prince of tone kind of deal that only had one of the sides and use a boost in front of it. I could only use them alternating both channels, not at the same time.

My bad english, of course, they expected much more from this pedal. Fact is that we have better sounding devices which are 4x cheaper that this hyped pedal.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 31 Mar 2019, 17:23

I traced the 1S1588 and the MA858 diodes pn-junction curves and searched for suitable curves.
The MA588 is a good replacement for the MA856 the curves are very similar.
I found that the 1N914 is a good replacement for the 1S1588.
The shape of the MA858 curve is similar to base-emitter and base-collector curve of BJTs the values are close each other.
I will continue to search for the suitable BJT.
1S1588 Comparation.jpg

MA858 Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 02 Apr 2019, 13:07

I have tried various transitors the MPSA18 base-emitter diode gave the best match with the MA858 Diode.
So can the MA856 replaced by the MPSA18 base-emitter diode.

MA858 MPSA18 Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby jalmonsalmon » 03 Apr 2019, 03:08

Manfred wrote:I have tried various transitors the MPSA18 base-emitter diode gave the best match with the MA858 Diode.
So can the MA856 replaced by the MPSA18 base-emitter diode.

MA858 MPSA18 Comparation.jpg


That's awesome!
Save your money and go the base-emitter route of MPSA18s
I want to take back my MA856's
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Intripped » 03 Apr 2019, 15:09

Manfred, could you please check the mpsa13 (darlington) base-emitter diodes as well?
I mean one mpsa13 compared with two MA856 in series?

The fw-drop on my multimeter is around 1590 mV
...I'm not sure, but I think darlingtons can be used as clipping diodes... what do you think?
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 03 Apr 2019, 18:06

Intripped,

I traced the Darlinton BC373 B-E path the curve does not match it is far away from the 2 x MA858 curve.
I have no MPSA13 in the moment but I going to order one.
2xMA858 BC373A Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 05 Apr 2019, 23:03

Today I received the MPSA13 Darlingtons.
The traced curve is also far away from the 2 x MA858 curve.
Now I going to order MPSA14s.
MA858 MPSA18 MPSA13 Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby bool » 06 Apr 2019, 13:34

MPSA14 should be similar to MPSA13.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 06 Apr 2019, 23:57

I had an idea and made a Darlington circuit with two MPSA18.
I let the collector connected and traced the base 1 to emitter 2 PN-junction.
The trace affirmed my supposition, the curve is similar to the read curves of the Darlingtons with the lower knee voltages.
The obvious reason is the connection of the collectors.
I would therefore say that not any Darlington transistor can have the curve of two base-emitter paths in seriell conection.
MA858 MPSA18 MPSA18 Darlington Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 07 Apr 2019, 19:02

It did not leave me in peace, I was curious to see what causes the differences in circuit behavior.
I have therefore measured both circuit as follows shown in the image.
MPSA18 Read Values.JPG

If both collectors are connected the second transitor becomes conductive
and the most of the current flows through base-collector path of the first transistor to the second one.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 14 Apr 2019, 13:03

I traced the B_E diodes of the MPSA42 and MPSA92 transistors but there is no match to the MA858 curves neither.
MA858 MPSAxx Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Frank_NH » 15 Apr 2019, 05:26

I've been playing around with a blues breaker circuit on my breadboard, and one diode I think may make a good substitute for the KOT MA856 is the BA100. Has a Fv ~ 0.7 V and is a silicon signal diode. They're not too common, but are available from some suppliers.

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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 15 Apr 2019, 08:19

Frank_NH wrote:I've been playing around with a blues breaker circuit on my breadboard, and one diode I think may make a good substitute for the KOT MA856 is the BA100. Has a Fv ~ 0.7 V and is a silicon signal diode. They're not too common, but are available from some suppliers.


Thanks for the hint.
I just ordered BA100 diodes for testing, but it is hard to find the diodes in Europe.
The sales price is too high there is the MPSA18 transistor much cheaper.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Frank_NH » 15 Apr 2019, 14:45

Manfred wrote:
Frank_NH wrote:I've been playing around with a blues breaker circuit on my breadboard, and one diode I think may make a good substitute for the KOT MA856 is the BA100. Has a Fv ~ 0.7 V and is a silicon signal diode. They're not too common, but are available from some suppliers.


Thanks for the hint.
I just ordered BA100 diodes for testing, but it is hard to find the diodes in Europe.
The sales price is too high there is the MPSA18 transistor much cheaper.


I just ordered more BA100s as well, along with some 1S1588s. I thought about getting some MA856s, but they're expensive, and frankly I don't think I'd hear much of a difference from the BA100s (except for the MOJO factor :lol: ).
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 16 Apr 2019, 16:26

I traced the BA100 PN-junktion curve compared to the MA858 curve, the curves are far from each other.
MA858 BA100 Comparation.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Frank_NH » 16 Apr 2019, 18:25

Thanks Manfred - very interesting. The BA100 curve looks almost identical to your previous 1N4148 curve.

My DVM shows my BA100's FV to be in the 0.7 - 0.75V range, with 1N4148 being about 0.6 - 0.65V. I suppose there can be some variability between specific batches of diodes. Still, I would recommend BA100s for KOT clones as a better choice than 1N914s, provided they have the slightly higher FV.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 17 Apr 2019, 10:19

Here is the comparison of the BA100 diode with the 1N914 1N4148 MA858 diodes.
The BA100 PN-junktion curve is indeed very close to the 1N4148 curve.
MA858 BA100 1N4138 1N914.jpg
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Seiche » 17 Apr 2019, 11:47

i didn't expect such a big difference between 1n914 and 1n4148, I always thought they are identical :shock:
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Manfred » 17 Apr 2019, 12:14

Seiche wrote:i didn't expect such a big difference between 1n914 and 1n4148, I always thought they are identical :shock:


I traced a bunch of both diode types the difference is always the same.
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Re: Analogman - King of Tone

Postby Seiche » 17 Apr 2019, 12:24

yes but 1n4148 is always recommended as a replacement for 1n914 everywhere
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