Dunlop - JBF-3 Joe Bonamassa Fuzz Face [schematic]
- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
Well... it finally came in the other day.
It's very pretty... but pretty much a standard Fuzz Face.
Pretty good sound. Here's a review with a couple of sound clips:
Premier Guitar Review
Here's the same image with some component values added:
More to follow...
It's very pretty... but pretty much a standard Fuzz Face.
Pretty good sound. Here's a review with a couple of sound clips:
Premier Guitar Review
Here's the same image with some component values added:
More to follow...
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
Here's the undercarriage... where I found a couple of SMD components hiding out...
I wasn't sure about the transistors... The military spec equipment I always worked on was very clearly labeled, so I'm always a little wary when it comes to identifying commercial grade components. They're definitely PNP though (I measured them, plus it makes sense with the power conections). They are pretty well marked, so I took several pics to show all the markings around them...
I found the backwards "C" with the dot in it on an IC logo identification page... It was listed as "Planeta."
Rough schematic to follow...
I wasn't sure about the transistors... The military spec equipment I always worked on was very clearly labeled, so I'm always a little wary when it comes to identifying commercial grade components. They're definitely PNP though (I measured them, plus it makes sense with the power conections). They are pretty well marked, so I took several pics to show all the markings around them...
I found the backwards "C" with the dot in it on an IC logo identification page... It was listed as "Planeta."
Rough schematic to follow...
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
- fosnal1950
- Breadboard Brother
But remember it's just an endorsement , it doesn't make you play and sound like him straight away.
Practising is what you need or maybe one of those talent boosters.
This isn't meant personally
Practising is what you need or maybe one of those talent boosters.
This isn't meant personally
- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
Here's my rough draft of the schematic...
I'm a bit unsure of the transistors (as I mentioned above), and the resistors and SMD components. Some of the resistor values struck me as a little odd (332 Ohms?, 3.16 kOhms?)... Perhaps I'm misreading the color codes?
The little SMD trimpots are obviously nearly impossible to identify (no markings that I could see), so I took a reading across them with my Fluke to at least provide an idea of what mine were set at. I would assume these are being used to trim the collector voltages, so I would imagine that you could drop 10k trimpots in and simply tweak to taste.
The SMD cap (C5) is a bit of a mystery, since I couldn't find the damn thing.
As you can see in one of the pics, C5 is labeled on the far left of the board... and even has traces and leads, but it's directly under R1, so I don't know where it is? Perhaps its a multi-layered board or something? I've never really worked with SMD components or multi-layered boards, so I'll have to plead ignorance on this one. Since it appears to be forming a simple filter with R1, I would think that any small value cap would do the trick.
Anyway, if you guys could give me a hand with a few of these questions, I'll be happy to spruce up the schematic with the missing info and repost. At that point, I'd say you could use any standard FF board (with a couple of trace side components) and build away for a lot less than I paid for this beast.
Cheers...
Steve
I'm a bit unsure of the transistors (as I mentioned above), and the resistors and SMD components. Some of the resistor values struck me as a little odd (332 Ohms?, 3.16 kOhms?)... Perhaps I'm misreading the color codes?
The little SMD trimpots are obviously nearly impossible to identify (no markings that I could see), so I took a reading across them with my Fluke to at least provide an idea of what mine were set at. I would assume these are being used to trim the collector voltages, so I would imagine that you could drop 10k trimpots in and simply tweak to taste.
The SMD cap (C5) is a bit of a mystery, since I couldn't find the damn thing.
As you can see in one of the pics, C5 is labeled on the far left of the board... and even has traces and leads, but it's directly under R1, so I don't know where it is? Perhaps its a multi-layered board or something? I've never really worked with SMD components or multi-layered boards, so I'll have to plead ignorance on this one. Since it appears to be forming a simple filter with R1, I would think that any small value cap would do the trick.
Anyway, if you guys could give me a hand with a few of these questions, I'll be happy to spruce up the schematic with the missing info and repost. At that point, I'd say you could use any standard FF board (with a couple of trace side components) and build away for a lot less than I paid for this beast.
Cheers...
Steve
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
Still right on the money, though...fosnal1950 wrote:But remember it's just an endorsement , it doesn't make you play and sound like him straight away.
Practising is what you need or maybe one of those talent boosters.
This isn't meant personally
If only it were that easy to capture killer tone like his in a box. It's still a pretty good-sounding little beast, but certainly no miracle cure for my half-assed playing.
Cheers...
Steve
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
Hello friends, the transistors are the Russians MP39B Hfe with a range of between 20-60, and IT308B (possibly the military equivalent of GT308B) the you can find on ebay without any problems at an affordable price.
I left some shots of the Datasheet for if you can lend a hand.
Greetings from Spain.
I left some shots of the Datasheet for if you can lend a hand.
Greetings from Spain.
- RnFR
- Old Solderhand
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hey you beat me to it! yes, the transistors are Russian Ge. I was wondering when we were going to start seeing these transistors in commercial boxes. I guess the secret's out!
btw- those smd trimmers on the trackside are slick! I wonder if mr. tripps is behind this one?
also, my guess is that c5 was removed or was never placed on the board due to schematic revisions.
btw- those smd trimmers on the trackside are slick! I wonder if mr. tripps is behind this one?
also, my guess is that c5 was removed or was never placed on the board due to schematic revisions.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic
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- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
Awesome! Thanks for the info!JEM wrote:Hello friends, the transistors are the Russians MP39B Hfe with a range of between 20-60, and IT308B (possibly the military equivalent of GT308B) the you can find on ebay without any problems at an affordable price.
I left some shots of the Datasheet for if you can lend a hand.
I had a feeling they were germaniums based upon the sound, although admittedly I'm far from an expert on identifying the difference purely on sound quality. It's good to know that they are readily available too... They really do produce a pretty sweet sound, so it'll be nice to be able to reproduce it... especially since it's such a relatively simple circuit.
I thought the trimpots were a pretty cool addition as well. I don't think I've ever seen trimpots that small.RnFR wrote:hey you beat me to it! yes, the transistors are Russian Ge. I was wondering when we were going to start seeing these transistors in commercial boxes. I guess the secret's out!
btw- those smd trimmers on the trackside are slick! I wonder if mr. tripps is behind this one?
also, my guess is that c5 was removed or was never placed on the board due to schematic revisions.
As far as C5 goes, that was my first inclination too... except that some solder has been applied to the lead areas, so I wasn't 100% sure. I have limited experience with multi-layer boards and some of the newer SMD construction techniques, so I wasn't really sure if there might be a slim SMD component in there underneath the surface.
I probably sound pretty ignorant in this regard, but the vast majority of my electronics experience was with much older military equipment (certainly pre-SMD), most of which worked at much higher voltages. I just didn't want to miss anything.
It is also worth noting that there are other mistakes on the printed layout on the underside of the board. If you look closely, you'll see that the electrolytic cap polarities are backwards on the labeling. I'd suspect that they dabbled with an NPN version of the circuit at one time, or are recycling boards from an NPN FF variant. I never bothered to look inside my Dunlop Dallas Arbiter FF reissue, but I may pull it out of the footlocker for a look at some point to see if the board was the same.
Cheers...
Steve
PS ~ I'd be interested to hear opinions on this is anyone decides to breadboard it or build a copy. I think it's a pretty good-sounding fuzz, but probably not worth the heavy duty price tag attached. I bought it in part to be able to contribute the info to the forum since I learn so much from you folks, so I'll be pretty happy if some of you find it useful.
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
- Steven_M
- Resistor Ronker
I can tell just from looking, but isnt it common for folks to use a low value capacitor in fuzz face builds between the legs of the transistors to stop oscillations and such? Just a guess, but perhaps C5 is there for that reason and is added/removed when the circuit is tested.
- prehistoric
- Solder Soldier
not so fast , guys. looks like dunlop has already released revision 1B:
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- fuzzfacebona.jpg (14.27 KiB) Viewed 13707 times
- johnnyg
- Resistor Ronker
Thanks Steve - the copper finish is just a paint then on these?Tonetweaker wrote: It is also worth noting that there are other mistakes on the printed layout on the underside of the board. If you look closely, you'll see that the electrolytic cap polarities are backwards on the labeling. I'd suspect that they dabbled with an NPN version of the circuit at one time, or are recycling boards from an NPN FF variant. I never bothered to look inside my Dunlop Dallas Arbiter FF reissue, but I may pull it out of the footlocker for a look at some point to see if the board was the same.
Cheers...
Steve
PS ~ I'd be interested to hear opinions on this is anyone decides to breadboard it or build a copy. I think it's a pretty good-sounding fuzz, but probably not worth the heavy duty price tag attached. I bought it in part to be able to contribute the info to the forum since I learn so much from you folks, so I'll be pretty happy if some of you find it useful.
The hfe of those Russian Transistors is probably the key here for anyone wanting to build a traditional sounding Ge fuzz face - so you're generosity is likely to be a lot more useful than you might have realised
I believe that board is exactly the same as the one found in the most recent blue Jimi Hendrix Dunlop FF - that uses BC108 NPN transistors and was developed by Jorge Tripps. So they are recycling the pcbs there. He's done a really good job I think - the earlier Dunlop FFs I've encountered (just two of them admittedly) were shit sounding.
Not sure what's going on inside the unit posted by prehistoric - is that for real?
Yet to break through the Space Charge
- Tonetweaker
- Resistor Ronker
For some reason, I can't seem to get the full-sized image in your post, but even at the forum size, I can see that it looks NOTHING like mine.prehistoric wrote:not so fast , guys. looks like dunlop has already released revision 1B:
I wish I could see that damn image.
Could someone re-post please?
I pre-ordered mine direct from JB's site within a few days of receiving the fan club notification... I can't imagine why they'd already be tinkering with the guts. Folks have barely had a chance to plug it in yet.
Happy to share, Johnny.johnnyg wrote:Thanks Steve - the copper finish is just a paint then on these?
Actually, it's either copper or a pretty decent alloy of some sort. The pedal is pretty heavy, and a look at the edges makes me think it's actually a polished surface. If it's some sort of paint or laminate, I'd be very impressed.
That's very true. If these turn out to be readily available and can be had for a good price, I'd say that these will be quite popular for FF builds. I can certainly vouch for the fact that these sound pretty darn good.johnnyg wrote:The hfe of those Russian Transistors is probably the key here for anyone wanting to build a traditional sounding Ge fuzz face - so you're generosity is likely to be a lot more useful than you might have realised
I have a red Dallas Arbiter reissue by Dunlop. I wasn't particularly impressed with it, so I know what you mean there. I was pleasantly surprised at how good this one sounds, though, so things have definitely improved at Mr. D's factory.johnnyg wrote:I believe that board is exactly the same as the one found in the most recent blue Jimi Hendrix Dunlop FF - that uses BC108 NPN transistors and was developed by Jorge Tripps. So they are recycling the pcbs there. He's done a really good job I think - the earlier Dunlop FFs I've encountered (just two of them admittedly) were shit sounding.
I was thinking the same thing. Even in the forum-sized pic, it looks drastically different. I hope he didn't buy it used... The first thing that came to mind is that someone pulled the old switch and dropped some cheap distortion board. Considering the big price tag on this beast, I could see someone rehousing the JBFF guts and then reselling the rest with a generic fuzz or distortion. I sincerely hope that's not the case, though.johnnyg wrote:Not sure what's going on inside the unit posted by prehistoric - is that for real?
Cheers...
Steve
In Soviet Russia, dirt box fucks YOU!! ~ Seiche
- prehistoric
- Solder Soldier
turns out the one i posted was a prototype from my photoshop lab
- Hides-His-Eyes
- Tube Twister
Love the design on that prototype with the vintage components on top and the modern additions underneath. Looks really slick.
Testing, testing, won too fwee
- GuitarlCarl
- Cap Cooler
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Hahaha. Couple of days early man that would have been a sweet April Fool's Day pic...prehistoric wrote:turns out the one i posted was a prototype from my photoshop lab
maybe put it on TGP on 4-1!!! see how many orders ya get...
I want it to sound like bees buzzing around in a 55 gallon drum...
- prehistoric
- Solder Soldier
i agree, that is a new level of boutiquism in modern major mfgr world. has the stamp of mr tripps all over it. making it look totally vintage (inside) yet having a few hotrod tricks under the hood is very slick indeed.
- RnFR
- Old Solderhand
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the only thing slicker would be to put a charge pump trackside for use with a standard dc jack. I do enjoy the whole SMD trackside thing, it's something I've been meaning to get into. of course, it means buying even more parts.
"You've converted me to Cubic thinking. Where do I sign up for the newsletter? I need to learn more about how I can break free from ONEism Death Math." - Soulsonic
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- DrNomis
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I had a listen to the two audio demo clips, my two Fuzz Faces sound nothing like the Joe Bonamassa signature model.....
Maybe those Russian Ge transistors are the secret?....
Maybe those Russian Ge transistors are the secret?....
Genius is not all about 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration - sometimes the solution is staring you right in the face.-Frequencycentral.
- Hides-His-Eyes
- Tube Twister
Gawd, I know. I can't stand the thought of having to keep a full stock of 1206 as well as standard resistors. Something like this demonstrates the real possibilities though.RnFR wrote:the only thing slicker would be to put a charge pump trackside for use with a standard dc jack. I do enjoy the whole SMD trackside thing, it's something I've been meaning to get into. of course, it means buying even more parts.
Testing, testing, won too fwee
- johnnyg
- Resistor Ronker
Different transistors certainly have their own sound (or maybe frequency response is a better term) as you'll know more than me I'm sure DrNomis So I've no doubt those Russian ones have their own thing going on (and evidently do a great job for Mr Tripps and Mr Bonamassa to be happy with them).DrNomis wrote:I had a listen to the two audio demo clips, my two Fuzz Faces sound nothing like the Joe Bonamassa signature model.....
Maybe those Russian Ge transistors are the secret?....
But the hfe range of those types is possibly more interesting than the actual type - if you want to tinker or look through transistors you've already got instead of buying more... no doubt those Russian ones will jump up in price now the words out!
What are they?.. 20-60hfe on average... think I've a couple of Russian ones that look like that, can't remember the type - they had very little leakage, and that perhaps is a reason Mr Tripps/Dunlop have picked theirs (in addition to cost/availability).
The original NKT275 had a nominal range of 30-90hfe.
The Denis Cornell 90s Arbiter Reissue I took apart had a pair of AC128s with hfe c.50.
You get the idea!
Good chance Denis Cornell and Jorge Tripps have measured original units I would suspect. Electric Warrior has said somewhere that lower gain is the way to go with the ge fuzz face - David Main has also said that somewhere on his site. You don't have to stick to low gain of course - but if you want the traditional kind of sound then it's the way to go I guess.
Yet to break through the Space Charge