BBE - 427 Distortion [schematic]
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- Joined: 03 Jan 2013, 17:10
I actually have one of these and just thought I would add some photos that I took for anyone's consideration. Its an interesting pedal, has a crunchy bright top end that gets brighter with more gain. As a result you'll fiddle with the tone knob as you fiddle with the gain most likely. They mention the muff as an inspiration but it doesn't look anything like a muff to me unless its part of the op amp version.
http://imgur.com/WCx6dCa
http://imgur.com/VAYSJ87
http://imgur.com/182jpO9
http://imgur.com/WCx6dCa
http://imgur.com/VAYSJ87
http://imgur.com/182jpO9
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Actually, they just say that the tone control is inspired from a '70s BMP, not the entire circuit.
http://www.bbesound.com/products/stomp- ... -427P.aspx
If you gave us a few more photos so we could see what's behind some of the bigger components, it probably wouldn't be hard to trace this thing.
http://www.bbesound.com/products/stomp- ... -427P.aspx
If you gave us a few more photos so we could see what's behind some of the bigger components, it probably wouldn't be hard to trace this thing.
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- Posts: 21
- Joined: 03 Jan 2013, 17:10
I didn't catch that tone control big muff thing. I bet it is based on a rat although I think the rat is easier to dial in. I'll see what I can do on the pics. Getting the pedal back together is a little trick because the LED doesn't want to line up without a lot of fiddling through the AC jack hole.
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I'll probably tackle tracing it next week when I have some spare time, so a few more good photos of the top side of the board would be handy.
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Got an initial trace of the circuit done. I think I've got the overall architecture figured out, but there were a lot of component values that I couldn't see due to camera angles. I'll have to get nashsnazzy to confirm/check some component values once I draw up a schematic.
Paul Gagon's bio says that he "designed" the Crusher in the mid-late '80s and built about a dozen of them for some of the the guitarists who visited the Jackson guitar plant (where he worked at the time), but that the Crusher didn't enter commercial production until about 20 years later at BBE. This would suggest that the design of the Crusher predates Marshall's production of the Guv'nor (early '90s, I think?) by a couple years, but I don't have any evidence as to which circuit actually came first and which one was the copy. BBE's product literature pretty firmly states that Gagon designed the Crusher and the 427 himself, but they never make reference to the Guv'nor (either as a derivative of it, or an inspiration for it), and we all know how honest companies tend to be when claiming ownership of pedal circuits...
Anybody know anything about the origin of the Guv'nor to confirm or dispute Gagon's claim to the invention of the design?
Nope. It's [a modified] BBE Crusher/Marshall Guv'nor circuit with a BMP tone control. I'll post the schematic once I have some time to sit down with AutoCAD later in the week.Duckman wrote:Rat inspired... just a guess
Paul Gagon's bio says that he "designed" the Crusher in the mid-late '80s and built about a dozen of them for some of the the guitarists who visited the Jackson guitar plant (where he worked at the time), but that the Crusher didn't enter commercial production until about 20 years later at BBE. This would suggest that the design of the Crusher predates Marshall's production of the Guv'nor (early '90s, I think?) by a couple years, but I don't have any evidence as to which circuit actually came first and which one was the copy. BBE's product literature pretty firmly states that Gagon designed the Crusher and the 427 himself, but they never make reference to the Guv'nor (either as a derivative of it, or an inspiration for it), and we all know how honest companies tend to be when claiming ownership of pedal circuits...
Anybody know anything about the origin of the Guv'nor to confirm or dispute Gagon's claim to the invention of the design?
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According to this post, Marshall states that the Guv'nor was first issued in '89:BAARON wrote:Marshall's production of the Guv'nor (early '90s, I think?)
http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewt ... 15#p898489
H. Wahlsten
Founder of Whalestone
Founder of Whalestone
- Duckman
- Opamp Operator
So, I guess my guess was wrongBAARON wrote:Nope. It's [a modified] BBE Crusher/Marshall Guv'nor circuit with a BMP tone control.Duckman wrote:Rat inspired... just a guess
The TL072 have more sense now you mention it
Thanks for your work
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Here's the schematic. Had some spare time tonight to sit down with AutoCAD and draw this sucker up. Could somebody move this thread to the Modern Effects forum?
There are a few values that I couldn't make out in the photos (either due to focus or camera angle). Nashsnazzy, if you look them up on your board and post them, I will add them to the schematic. Here is a list of what's missing:
Ra: need part number. Beside R3 on board.
Rb: need part number and confirm if 10k. Beside R10 under gain pot.
Rc: need part number. Under tone pot, beside edge of board and Cc.
Rd: need part number and value. Between R9 and Cc on board.
R3: confirm if 1K.
R10: need value.
Ca: need part number and value. Ceramic cap beside C5 on board.
Cb: need part number and value. Green cap under gain pot.
Cc: need part number and value. Green cap under tone pot, oriented parallel with resistors.
C1: need value.
C4: need value.
C5: need value.
C6: need value.
C10: confirm if 1000uF. (BBE uses this in most of their pedals.)
C11: need value.
D1: need diode type if you want to get really detailed.
Tone pot: need value.
LEDs are 5mm red. Not sure of forward voltage, but probably about 1.6-1.8v.
There are a few values that I couldn't make out in the photos (either due to focus or camera angle). Nashsnazzy, if you look them up on your board and post them, I will add them to the schematic. Here is a list of what's missing:
Ra: need part number. Beside R3 on board.
Rb: need part number and confirm if 10k. Beside R10 under gain pot.
Rc: need part number. Under tone pot, beside edge of board and Cc.
Rd: need part number and value. Between R9 and Cc on board.
R3: confirm if 1K.
R10: need value.
Ca: need part number and value. Ceramic cap beside C5 on board.
Cb: need part number and value. Green cap under gain pot.
Cc: need part number and value. Green cap under tone pot, oriented parallel with resistors.
C1: need value.
C4: need value.
C5: need value.
C6: need value.
C10: confirm if 1000uF. (BBE uses this in most of their pedals.)
C11: need value.
D1: need diode type if you want to get really detailed.
Tone pot: need value.
LEDs are 5mm red. Not sure of forward voltage, but probably about 1.6-1.8v.
- Attachments
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- Schematic is missing values/labels that were not visible in nashsnazzy's photos.
- BBE 427 incomplete.PNG (10.27 KiB) Viewed 5844 times
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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In comparison with the BBE-Crusher and the BBE-Screamer Schematics I added
some part values which are excerpted from similar circuit sections.
The tone control circuit looks like the circuit applied at Proel Blues Distortion
download/file.php?id=13223&mode=view
some part values which are excerpted from similar circuit sections.
The tone control circuit looks like the circuit applied at Proel Blues Distortion
download/file.php?id=13223&mode=view
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Unless my eyes deceive me, the capacitor you added to the tone control in my drawing does not exist on the board. It is not visible from the top side of the board, nor is there a spot for it when the board is considered from the back side. (No leads. Every component is already accounted for in my drawing, as far as I can tell, aside from the switching and the wire routing and boring details like that.)
Besides, it already matches the Boss DS-1 version of the BMP tone control (without the extra cap that you added). It even has the matching 6k8 resistors. I wonder if the caps and the third resistor will match the DS-1 as well? We need nashsnazzy to chime in here and check the missing values in his pedal.
Besides, it already matches the Boss DS-1 version of the BMP tone control (without the extra cap that you added). It even has the matching 6k8 resistors. I wonder if the caps and the third resistor will match the DS-1 as well? We need nashsnazzy to chime in here and check the missing values in his pedal.
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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You are right.BAARON wrote:Unless my eyes deceive me, the capacitor you added to the tone control in my drawing does not exist on the board. It is not visible from the top side of the board, nor is there a spot for it when the board is considered from the back side. (No leads. Every component is already accounted for in my drawing, as far as I can tell, aside from the switching and the wire routing and boring details like that.)
Besides, it already matches the Boss DS-1 version of the BMP tone control (without the extra cap that you added). It even has the matching 6k8 resistors. I wonder if the caps and the third resistor will match the DS-1 as well? We need nashsnazzy to chime in here and check the missing values in his pedal.
I suppose, both BBE and Proel applied the Boss circuit.
I bought a defective Proel DS-10 at Ebay yesterday, so I can check out how affects the extra cap the tone after mending.
I intend to buy the BBE 427 over the course of the current year.
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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I had traced de FD427 and redraw the layout and excerpted the schematic.
Part list:
C1 1uf 50 Volts
C2 100nf Foil
C3 330pf Ceramic
C4 22nf Foil
C5 47nF Foil
C6 100pf Ceramic
C7 470pf Ceramic
C8 220nf Foil
C9 220nf Foil
C10 1000uf 16 Volts
C11 10uf 25 Volts
D1 1N4001
LED1 3MM red
LED2 3MM red
LED3 3MM BLUE
R1 6k8
R2 680k
R3 1K
R4 1k
R5 10k
R6 2k15
R7 10M
R8 1M
R9 6k8
R10 2k15
R11 6k8
R12 10k
R13 10k
U1A TL072CN
VR1 B10k
VR2 A100k
VR3 B100k
Layouts not verified
Part list:
C1 1uf 50 Volts
C2 100nf Foil
C3 330pf Ceramic
C4 22nf Foil
C5 47nF Foil
C6 100pf Ceramic
C7 470pf Ceramic
C8 220nf Foil
C9 220nf Foil
C10 1000uf 16 Volts
C11 10uf 25 Volts
D1 1N4001
LED1 3MM red
LED2 3MM red
LED3 3MM BLUE
R1 6k8
R2 680k
R3 1K
R4 1k
R5 10k
R6 2k15
R7 10M
R8 1M
R9 6k8
R10 2k15
R11 6k8
R12 10k
R13 10k
U1A TL072CN
VR1 B10k
VR2 A100k
VR3 B100k
Layouts not verified
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Here the corrected schematic, the pin numbers 2 and 3 of the OpAmp were interchanged.
- modman
- a d m i n
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At last moved to Modern Stompboxes - 5 years too late.
Great work though
Great work though
Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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I found a drawing error in the PSU part when I created the Vero layout.
Here is the corrected schematic: Ready to print PDF-files: Lochmaster 4.0 - file:
Here is the corrected schematic: Ready to print PDF-files: Lochmaster 4.0 - file:
- roseblood11
- Tube Twister
This one has the polarity protection diode in series:
http://dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com/2019 ... rtion.html
http://dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com/2019 ... rtion.html
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Thanks for the hint you are right, in the original PCB above the diode for the reverse polarity protection is connected in series.
BBE itself uses both variants of the diode once in parallel and then again in series to the power supply input.
I will adapt the schematic and the layout soon.
BBE itself uses both variants of the diode once in parallel and then again in series to the power supply input.
I will adapt the schematic and the layout soon.
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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The reverse polarity protection diode is now connected in series to the circuit.
Ready to print PDF-files
Lochmaster 4.0 file: