Rockman X100 - Make it a DIY Pedal

[Carvindc125]

Boom; got a clip!

Man that sounds so sweet!
That compressor trips up EVERYONE that has tried to clone this circuit. I'm thinking why don't we just cut it out completely and insert a different compressor circuit that uses the same 4558 chip Something like what I have attached. It basically is fool proof. Just turn the trimmer until it is good enough for ya

In your build are you using the Echo and Chorus circuit as well? If so did you have to change any component values?
Lastly I read about the tone stack your using. You said you added it at the end. Do you mean at the end of the distortion circuit or literally at the end just before the output of the circuit?

here is a compressor idea based on the Orange Squeezer. It will need to be tweaked to work with the +6-6 so you will want to breadboard first for sure.
I'm getting some days off work starting tomorrow and I plan to dive in to this deeper. Hopefully my ideas can help.
Lastly here is a link with a chat from the same guy who found the real component values that you just swapped in.
He was able to get the compressor working by adding a 10M Pot it looks like LOL.
viewtopic.php?t=28707

[jarrodthebobo]

Boom; got a clip!

Man that sounds so sweet!
That compressor trips up EVERYONE that has tried to clone this circuit. I'm thinking why don't we just cut it out completely and insert a different compressor circuit that uses the same 4558 chip Something like what I have attached. It basically is fool proof. Just turn the trimmer until it is good enough for ya

In your build are you using the Echo and Chorus circuit as well? If so did you have to change any component values?
Lastly I read about the tone stack your using. You said you added it at the end. Do you mean at the end of the distortion circuit or literally at the end just before the output of the circuit?

here is a compressor idea based on the Orange Squeezer. It will need to be tweaked to work with the +6-6 so you will want to breadboard first for sure.
I'm getting some days off work starting tomorrow and I plan to dive in to this deeper. Hopefully my ideas can help.
Lastly here is a link with a chat from the same guy who found the real component values that you just swapped in.
He was able to get the compressor working by adding a 10M Pot it looks like LOL.
viewtopic.php?t=28707

I didn't add the echo or chorus units as thks is mainly going to be used as a direct in recording box for me; so I have a multitude of vsts at my hands that honestly, will probably sound a bit better than the chorus and echo/reverb used in the rockman units but, ymmv!

The tone circuit is placed directly after the cab sim circuit, and is just lifted from the Randall rg100es with a few component changes to better fit more "marshall" tone stack values in accordance with the Duncan TSC. It has a 2n5484 buffer after the cab sim, into the tone stack, then another directly after it (2n5484).

[Carvindc125]

Boom; got a clip!

Man that sounds so sweet!
That compressor trips up EVERYONE that has tried to clone this circuit. I'm thinking why don't we just cut it out completely and insert a different compressor circuit that uses the same 4558 chip Something like what I have attached. It basically is fool proof. Just turn the trimmer until it is good enough for ya

In your build are you using the Echo and Chorus circuit as well? If so did you have to change any component values?
Lastly I read about the tone stack your using. You said you added it at the end. Do you mean at the end of the distortion circuit or literally at the end just before the output of the circuit?

here is a compressor idea based on the Orange Squeezer. It will need to be tweaked to work with the +6-6 so you will want to breadboard first for sure.
I'm getting some days off work starting tomorrow and I plan to dive in to this deeper. Hopefully my ideas can help.
Lastly here is a link with a chat from the same guy who found the real component values that you just swapped in.
He was able to get the compressor working by adding a 10M Pot it looks like LOL.
viewtopic.php?t=28707

I didn't add the echo or chorus units as thks is mainly going to be used as a direct in recording box for me; so I have a multitude of vsts at my hands that honestly, will probably sound a bit better than the chorus and echo/reverb used in the rockman units but, ymmv!

The tone circuit is placed directly after the cab sim circuit, and is just lifted from the Randall rg100es with a few component changes to better fit more "marshall" tone stack values in accordance with the Duncan TSC. It has a 2n5484 buffer after the cab sim, into the tone stack, then another directly after it (2n5484).

Did you add any echo/reverb or anything on that video or was that all Rockman/cab sim?

[jarrodthebobo]

Boom; got a clip!

Man that sounds so sweet!
That compressor trips up EVERYONE that has tried to clone this circuit. I'm thinking why don't we just cut it out completely and insert a different compressor circuit that uses the same 4558 chip Something like what I have attached. It basically is fool proof. Just turn the trimmer until it is good enough for ya

In your build are you using the Echo and Chorus circuit as well? If so did you have to change any component values?
Lastly I read about the tone stack your using. You said you added it at the end. Do you mean at the end of the distortion circuit or literally at the end just before the output of the circuit?

here is a compressor idea based on the Orange Squeezer. It will need to be tweaked to work with the +6-6 so you will want to breadboard first for sure.
I'm getting some days off work starting tomorrow and I plan to dive in to this deeper. Hopefully my ideas can help.
Lastly here is a link with a chat from the same guy who found the real component values that you just swapped in.
He was able to get the compressor working by adding a 10M Pot it looks like LOL.
viewtopic.php?t=28707

I didn't add the echo or chorus units as thks is mainly going to be used as a direct in recording box for me; so I have a multitude of vsts at my hands that honestly, will probably sound a bit better than the chorus and echo/reverb used in the rockman units but, ymmv!

The tone circuit is placed directly after the cab sim circuit, and is just lifted from the Randall rg100es with a few component changes to better fit more "marshall" tone stack values in accordance with the Duncan TSC. It has a 2n5484 buffer after the cab sim, into the tone stack, then another directly after it (2n5484).

Did you add any echo/reverb or anything on that video or was that all Rockman/cab sim?

Yeah I had a plate reverb vst and a bit of tapeish delay on the bus. There was an eq being used when I was using the vst cab sim, just rolling off the sub bass. I tured it off when using the analog cab sim though.

[FeVeR2112]

Wow.... I was out for the last 3 weeks for work and lots happened here. Thank you to everyone who has been taking the time to jump in on this.

[FeVeR2112]

I have updated the orig schem with the new component values. Please review and let me know if any other value changes are needed.

[Carvindc125]

I have updated the orig schem with the new component values. Please review and let me know if any other value changes are needed.Rockman Schem.v0.2.JPG

Welcome back!
I’m a little tardy to the party and am here mainly to help with or get help with sorting out the clean 1&2 sections. For the moment though since everyone is interested in the distortion and compressor section I have turned my attention to it.
The compressor is still a issue. There was one guy on this forum that got a stock jfet he randomly purchased on eBay with no knowledge of it gain biased and working
By replacing R106 and R107 with a 10M pot and adjusted it until it worked. He did note he lost a little gain but not enough to affect the overall character of the circuit.

Thanks for all your help. I think I've solved the problems I was having. I've replaced the resistors R106 and R107 connected to Q101, the FET transistor, with a 10M trimpot set roughly to match. I have also removed the potentiometer I had added. I thought this would tame the over-compression but this was just wrong.

The Edge setting seemed to be to low in volume and insipid before. There is still a bit of a volume loss compared to the Distortion setting but it now sounds good.

I based my build on the schematics in this forum in the post "Rockman - Headphone Amp". I also used the images posted in the Diystompboxes forum under the topic "Some Rockman X100 Mods". There are a couple of problems with the schematic "Rockman Rev 10.pdf". Some of the component values don't match the values I found on the board photo and there is also a mistake - R175 and R176 are shown to connect to R111 and C107. I'm pretty sure this is wrong. It does not match the photo of the copper side of the board.

Now to play some ZZ Top!

[FeVeR2112]

The compressor is still a issue. There was one guy on this forum that got a stock jfet he randomly purchased on eBay with no knowledge of it gain biased and working
By replacing R106 and R107 with a 10M pot and adjusted it until it worked. He did note he lost a little gain but not enough to affect the overall character of the circuit.

I also will tackle the clean side as I want to build the full circuit with pots for controls.

I had posted a bias mod earlier.... here it is again. I have some of the 2N4339 transistors in my inventory now and will try this on the breadboard when my work gives my life back in December (maybe earlier)

[Carvindc125]

Fermusicman On this forum has very graciously replied to a pm I sent and said he has a diagram and still has an original x100 he is going to verify all the correct component values for us in the clean sections

[Carvindc125]

Is the compressor not used when clean 1&2 are engaged? Looking at the schematic it appears the compressor is built into the distortion/edge section and a diode blocks the compressor from hitting the clean circuit.
That is interesting because you hear people talk about how compressed the clean tone sounds on the rockman.

[jarrodthebobo]

I have updated the orig schem with the new component values. Please review and let me know if any other value changes are needed.Rockman Schem.v0.2.JPG

C136 is 22pf instead of 220pf , at least with the 'updated' values given!

[jarrodthebobo]

http://www.lynx.net/~jc/x100modSchem.gif

Just wanted to throw this mod back in here for anyone quickly glancing over this thread. I have the compressor circuit on my build set up like this one is.

[FeVeR2112]

Help me out with that black schem - my eyes are not great. What values are changed per the updated schematic on this thread yesterday?

[phatt]

I am looking at the full schematic and admittedly I am not used to looking at a schematic drawn in this way. The switches and routing to them is throwing me off and confusing me.
Is there anyway someone could be an amazing over achiever and Draw the schematic in sections like the edge, dst, and EQ1 was laid out below? I am trying to understand how it all fits together. Where the clean 1 &2 input/output is How the EQ1 & 2 fit in with the Echo Trigger/Stereo Echo, and Chorus and trying to understand if the compressor is in the clean and dst/edg side. or just the dst/edg side.
Thanks a million in advance! Sorry for such a silly request but I learned to read schematics on my own and have trouble with bigger ones.

TLDR?
Requesting the clean 1 & 2 sections (EQ2, Echo Trigger/Stereo Echo, and Chorus) be drawn in sections like the example below.

Years ago I spent months back engineering the Nobels circuit long before I had a computer so it's do able if you have the patience or in my case the need. worth trying,,It's very good way to learn

I was quite surprised that years later I found the schematic on the web for the Nobels SST1 and my drawing was damn close to the factory drawing,,, but I'm not about to do that again,, LOL.
If enough interest I can make a drawing to simplify the signal paths but it is rather time consuming.


(Re signal path on the original drawing)
Unless I'm going blind the Compressor is on for all settings.
All settings pass through EQ1,,,Except for CLN2 which switches across to EQ2.
(EQ2 is IC104B)

The easiest way to follow the signal path is print the drawing out and highlight pen the path you wish to work out. (HINT)
SW101 is a 4 position switch so just join the dots for the 4 positions.
As drawn the switch is in Dist position,, the next position is EDGE which removes the loop back to pin5 of IC101B (the left side of switch)
It then joins EDGE and CLN1,, In this position left side of Sw grounds out R174 (3k3) while keeping C137 (15nF) in circuit.
While on the Right side of Switch,
CLN1 mode removes the output of IC102B (The Distortion) while still passing through EQ1. It also adds in R111(18k) & C107(10nF) to the signal path.
In CLN2 mode the right side of Switch engages EQ2 while Left side removes R174 (3k3)

FWIW, you can tweak this forever but in my humble observation,,As has been mentioned already there are likely much better compressor circuits around.
The one used here is likely tricky to setup and rather limited in ability.

The best part of this thing is the cab sim.
Likely easier to use a couple of you favorite dirt pedals into a compressor and hang a tone stack on the end of the cab sim and your done. Just my thought's,, YMMV.
Phil.

[deltafred]

Help me out with that black schem - my eyes are not great. What values are changed per the updated schematic on this thread yesterday?

Is this any better?

[Carvindc125]

I am looking at the full schematic and admittedly I am not used to looking at a schematic drawn in this way. The switches and routing to them is throwing me off and confusing me.
Is there anyway someone could be an amazing over achiever and Draw the schematic in sections like the edge, dst, and EQ1 was laid out below? I am trying to understand how it all fits together. Where the clean 1 &2 input/output is How the EQ1 & 2 fit in with the Echo Trigger/Stereo Echo, and Chorus and trying to understand if the compressor is in the clean and dst/edg side. or just the dst/edg side.
Thanks a million in advance! Sorry for such a silly request but I learned to read schematics on my own and have trouble with bigger ones.

TLDR?
Requesting the clean 1 & 2 sections (EQ2, Echo Trigger/Stereo Echo, and Chorus) be drawn in sections like the example below.

Years ago I spent months back engineering the Nobels circuit long before I had a computer so it's do able if you have the patience or in my case the need. worth trying,,It's very good way to learn

I was quite surprised that years later I found the schematic on the web for the Nobels SST1 and my drawing was damn close to the factory drawing,,, but I'm not about to do that again,, LOL.
If enough interest I can make a drawing to simplify the signal paths but it is rather time consuming.


(Re signal path on the original drawing)
Unless I'm going blind the Compressor is on for all settings.
All settings pass through EQ1,,,Except for CLN2 which switches across to EQ2.
(EQ2 is IC104B)

The easiest way to follow the signal path is print the drawing out and highlight pen the path you wish to work out. (HINT)
SW101 is a 4 position switch so just join the dots for the 4 positions.
As drawn the switch is in Dist position,, the next position is EDGE which removes the loop back to pin5 of IC101B (the left side of switch)
It then joins EDGE and CLN1,, In this position left side of Sw grounds out R174 (3k3) while keeping C137 (15nF) in circuit.
While on the Right side of Switch,
CLN1 mode removes the output of IC102B (The Distortion) while still passing through EQ1. It also adds in R111(18k) & C107(10nF) to the signal path.
In CLN2 mode the right side of Switch engages EQ2 while Left side removes R174 (3k3)

FWIW, you can tweak this forever but in my humble observation,,As has been mentioned already there are likely much better compressor circuits around.
The one used here is likely tricky to setup and rather limited in ability.

The best part of this thing is the cab sim.
Likely easier to use a couple of you favorite dirt pedals into a compressor and hang a tone stack on the end of the cab sim and your done. Just my thought's,, YMMV.
Phil.

Wait...You are absolutely correct. After screenshoting schematic then using paint to trace the input path from CN102 I can see how the signal is traveling in correlation with the switch. Pretty cool the way its laid out.
As for the compressor itself yes its preset to SMASH! LOL. Remember the idea of the Rockman was a fool proof way to get an amazing sound. All the EQing had been done for you. Unfortunately that means if you want to build one, you get to be the person who has to set the EQ and your up against a sound genius.
My idea is a bit in line with yours. I think the whole compressor section can be moved out and placed at the end of the circuit since this is going to be more of a preamp pedal instead of headphone amp and you could pretty much replace it with any other compressor circuit. Personally I think an orange squeezer circuit would fit right in but I could be wrong. Im really just jumping in this project. I plan to start really taking a hard look at it this afternoon.
Also waiting on guy that is working on a list of all the proper component values per his X100 unit that's in line with the schematic posted here. Apparently there are "misstakes" peppered all over the schematic. Im guessing this was a ploy to prevent people from making a true clone.

[Carvindc125]

The best part of this thing is the cab sim.
Likely easier to use a couple of you favorite dirt pedals into a compressor and hang a tone stack on the end of the cab sim and your done. Just my thought's,, YMMV.
Phil.

I believe the magic in the Rockman is actually the Chorus and the cab sim. The Echo is really just a fast decaying reverb that you could probably replicate with a PT2399 chip dare I say and save yourself about 30 components or more
So if you didn't want to accurately clone it but make something with similar tone then yeah The Cab sim will be what you copy from the circuit then I personally believe the chorus should be next to copy. After that the Echo, compressor and dirt can come from anything at least so it would seem right now. But I might change my mind on that statement as I dig into this project further LOL.

[Carvindc125]

Am I correct here? Is this how the circuit looks on Clean 1 before it hits EQ-1?

[phatt]

Am I correct here? Is this how the circuit looks on Clean 1 before it hits EQ-1?

Looks good to me, nothing like a highlight colour to follow the signal path.
Good on you
Phil.

[Carvindc125]

Am I correct here? Is this how the circuit looks on Clean 1 before it hits EQ-1?

Looks good to me, nothing like a highlight colour to follow the signal path.
Good on you
Phil.

So basically Clean 1 before it hits the cab sim is just a Compressor with an input Buffer right? Its basically relying on the cab sim to filter the overall tone right?