suppressing? Remove? change to the 68k to 220k and the 330k to 680k?jymaze wrote:Actually, I am not sure how you got more gain by reducing R5, should have been the opposite. I suspect it sounded different in a way that felt like it was more distorted. Actually, I forgot about it, but suppressing R5 and R10 will give a 12 dB boost (6 dB for each). Not sure about the voicing changing, probably not too much.
BLACK FOREST - Based on the Bogner Uberschall
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
I would try removing them, you can try a higher value for them but the difference in gain will be less noticeable and the high values will introduce some noise. Just unsolder one leg and test it, if you don't like it you can resolder or swap.
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
Tried lifting the resistors and almost no gain at all with either one or both... Sounds like a great clean sound though!jymaze wrote:I would try removing them, you can try a higher value for them but the difference in gain will be less noticeable and the high values will introduce some noise. Just unsolder one leg and test it, if you don't like it you can resolder or swap.
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
jymaze - the idea to turn Q5 into an additional gain stage was nothing short of brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I gotta say is this is "THE HIGHEST GAIN PREAMP" box I have ever made... or bought for that matter!!! More gain than AMT and it's REALLY GOOD GAIN! Didn't lose any of the tone at all maybe gained some!
I did lose a little bit of volume but I think I can bump that back up no problem!
Ok the 4th stage I set the source resistor to 680 and the 5th stage source is 820... The rest is the same as the 4th stage. I am serious man this thing is worth a million bucks now!!! Best pedal I have hands down, oh, and to top it all off the tone stack is much more functional now! If anybody thought it sounded good before better hold onto you nutz cause this thing is is a one of a kind Beast! You gotta build this!!!
I will redraw the layout tomorrow... gotta get some sleep now
Thanks a million jymaze!!!
~Jim
All I gotta say is this is "THE HIGHEST GAIN PREAMP" box I have ever made... or bought for that matter!!! More gain than AMT and it's REALLY GOOD GAIN! Didn't lose any of the tone at all maybe gained some!
I did lose a little bit of volume but I think I can bump that back up no problem!
Ok the 4th stage I set the source resistor to 680 and the 5th stage source is 820... The rest is the same as the 4th stage. I am serious man this thing is worth a million bucks now!!! Best pedal I have hands down, oh, and to top it all off the tone stack is much more functional now! If anybody thought it sounded good before better hold onto you nutz cause this thing is is a one of a kind Beast! You gotta build this!!!
I will redraw the layout tomorrow... gotta get some sleep now
Thanks a million jymaze!!!
~Jim
- meffcio
- Solder Soldier
This is just fucking strange. I dunno, it seems like most of the guys on the forum are rather interested in vintage fuzzes or smth. I'll definitely give all of those emulations a try, hopefully record samples for every one of them, but I still have exams to pass. Give me 2-3 weeks.J0K3RX wrote:Here's a good example of a past post that disapeared into the abyss... ENGL Powerball, you'd think this would have been more popular?
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic ... Mighty+Nut
~Jim
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
Awesome Jok3rx,
I think I'll have to build one of these jfet babies soon. My distortion pedal is still my modified tone stack Riot clone (which I like a lot though), but I need a change. So if I understand correctly, now the Black Forest tops your Engl-like Preamp now? I'll give it a try then.
About lifting R5 and R10, my bad: You CANNOT lift R5 (let's say I was tired yesterday...), but lifting R10 alone should work though and give a slight gain increase. From reading your post, I am not sure why lifting R10 alone would kill your gain. Anyway, now you have more gain that you will ever need I guess!
I think I'll have to build one of these jfet babies soon. My distortion pedal is still my modified tone stack Riot clone (which I like a lot though), but I need a change. So if I understand correctly, now the Black Forest tops your Engl-like Preamp now? I'll give it a try then.
About lifting R5 and R10, my bad: You CANNOT lift R5 (let's say I was tired yesterday...), but lifting R10 alone should work though and give a slight gain increase. From reading your post, I am not sure why lifting R10 alone would kill your gain. Anyway, now you have more gain that you will ever need I guess!
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
jymaze wrote:Awesome Jok3rx,
I think I'll have to build one of these jfet babies soon. My distortion pedal is still my modified tone stack Riot clone (which I like a lot though), but I need a change. So if I understand correctly, now the Black Forest tops your Engl-like Preamp now? I'll give it a try then.
About lifting R5 and R10, my bad: You CANNOT lift R5 (let's say I was tired yesterday...), but lifting R10 alone should work though and give a slight gain increase. From reading your post, I am not sure why lifting R10 alone would kill your gain. Anyway, now you have more gain that you will ever need I guess!
DUDE!! This thing is smokin! Damn near tore my arms off and left me with a bloody torso Thanks for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What do you think about adding that buffer stage after the tone stack? Might that increase the volume?
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
Changing Q5 buffer into a gain stage made you loose probably around 3 dB of max volume (barely noticeable) according to my simulations.
A buffer may add a little for total volume (according to the input impedance of the next element in the chain) and will slightly increase presence by counteracting the loss incurred by cables. A volume recovery stage will do better (wide band gain of 2 or so).
I would not bother with that since it could introduce some clipping after the tone stack and overload the elements down the chain which could shift the voicing in an unpredictable manner.
A buffer may add a little for total volume (according to the input impedance of the next element in the chain) and will slightly increase presence by counteracting the loss incurred by cables. A volume recovery stage will do better (wide band gain of 2 or so).
I would not bother with that since it could introduce some clipping after the tone stack and overload the elements down the chain which could shift the voicing in an unpredictable manner.
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
Cool... Well I had a 500k volume pot on there when I was testing, you think a 1M will bump it up a bit?jymaze wrote:Changing Q5 buffer into a gain stage made you loose probably around 3 dB of max volume (barely noticeable) according to my simulations.
A buffer may add a little for total volume (according to the input impedance of the next element in the chain) and will slightly increase presence by counteracting the loss incurred by cables. A volume recovery stage will do better (wide band gain of 2 or so).
I would not bother with that since it could introduce some clipping after the tone stack and overload the elements down the chain which could shift the voicing in an unpredictable manner.
Also, like I said you really don't even need a overdrive in front now but me being the nut that I am I stuck my TS808 in front of it and I really couldn't bring the level past 2 or 3 with the drive all the way off. But it really sets it on fire with that, gives it the extra over the top sound! I really use a TS808 in front of everything... It's really just me, I use it in front of all my stuff, AMT pedals, everything... This pedal still has more gain than any of the AMT pedals and the tone is awesome... very different sounding when played side by side with my other stuff.
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
1 meg versus 500k would only bump the volume by a fraction of dB. The max volume now is still way higher than most pedals so I would say it is enough. If you really want more volume, I would build something dedicated like a micro-amp/SHO/boost to put after it. It would give the possibility to add volume and you can even use it before or wherever else if you want to.
I personally have an SHO clone and it is awesome: great for punchy cleans, incisive crunch, and very good to push a lead tone over the top without changing the voicing (contrary to a Tube Screamer). It is just way more useful than meets the eyes at first and it is so simple to make. It is a must have in all respects.
I personally have an SHO clone and it is awesome: great for punchy cleans, incisive crunch, and very good to push a lead tone over the top without changing the voicing (contrary to a Tube Screamer). It is just way more useful than meets the eyes at first and it is so simple to make. It is a must have in all respects.
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
Yeah, I built an SHO the other day, it was more of a mild boner with a fuzzy set of nutz rather than a super hard on, but... Actually, I just grabed a few parts and blindly threw them on some perf board and presto, they all fell together and I didn't have to do anything Just kiddin of course but I did build one the other day, can't say that I am a big fan though..? I will have to try it with the new layout though and maybe after just to see..? Actually the volume was never crazy high on the pedal to begin with so now it's just a bit too low for me. I have the volume on the pedal maxed and when I run direct into reaper it doesn't even peak with the channel slider maxed.. I had this problem with the AMT clone I made... I have an idea of what to do to get up to where it should be, shouldn't be a problem...jymaze wrote:1 meg versus 500k would only bump the volume by a fraction of dB. The max volume now is still way higher than most pedals so I would say it is enough. If you really want more volume, I would build something dedicated like a micro-amp/SHO/boost to put after it. It would give the possibility to add volume and you can even use it before or wherever else if you want to.
I personally have an SHO clone and it is awesome: great for punchy cleans, incisive crunch, and very good to push a lead tone over the top without changing the voicing (contrary to a Tube Screamer). It is just way more useful than meets the eyes at first and it is so simple to make. It is a must have in all respects.
- rcustoms
- Resistor Ronker
Information
see my bloody little bastardJ0K3RX wrote:Next goal for me is to get a good boost/lite overdrive circuit to throw in front of these preamps and then a good cab emulation... I like the AMT cab/speaker emulation, small and just plain sounds good, no need for any controls/pots etc.. Nobody has accurately traced/copied it yet to my satisfaction anyway! I guess I will have to tear appart my P1 and get it myself if I ever want it.
Also working on a full 50w or 100w head but that is a ways off... I know rcustoms is working on that also so I am hoping to get some ideas from his!
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19361
- mozwell
- Breadboard Brother
Jok3rx
v2 schematic ? can you post please.
sounds like an awsesome beast indeed.
v2 schematic ? can you post please.
sounds like an awsesome beast indeed.
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
Jok3rx,
I am not sure why you have a problem with the output volume: This circuit should be quite loud compared to a bypass from the guitar itself (if passive pickups). Even with another pedal before, you should be able to have the bypass match the output without problem in most situations (would work with a TS, but maybe not with a a clean boost since the gain in volume is then so massive).
In practice, is your Black Forest at max volume louder than a Tube Screamer for example? It should certainly be, considering the structure of the circuit!
I am not sure why you have a problem with the output volume: This circuit should be quite loud compared to a bypass from the guitar itself (if passive pickups). Even with another pedal before, you should be able to have the bypass match the output without problem in most situations (would work with a TS, but maybe not with a a clean boost since the gain in volume is then so massive).
In practice, is your Black Forest at max volume louder than a Tube Screamer for example? It should certainly be, considering the structure of the circuit!
- mensur
- Breadboard Brother
Not exactly, if the source resistors are missbias stage, then the stage will kill volume, every stage must be biased properly, check them with digital oscilloscopejymaze wrote:Jok3rx,
I am not sure why you have a problem with the output volume: This circuit should be quite loud compared to a bypass from the guitar itself (if passive pickups). Even with another pedal before, you should be able to have the bypass match the output without problem in most situations (would work with a TS, but maybe not with a a clean boost since the gain in volume is then so massive).
In practice, is your Black Forest at max volume louder than a Tube Screamer for example? It should certainly be, considering the structure of the circuit!
https://rapidshare.com/#!download|687p8 ... |26865|0|0
Can't wait to finish the other projects I have on the table so I can give this a try... amazing work!
- jymaze
- Resistor Ronker
Ok Mensur, but I assume Jok3rx trimmed the drain potentiometers so that the output signal bias point is around 4.5 volts... he is quite familiar with jfet circuits I think.
And anyway the signal very quickly looks like a square wave after the first stage so unless biasing is grossly out of range, there is very little reason for a signal kill.
And anyway the signal very quickly looks like a square wave after the first stage so unless biasing is grossly out of range, there is very little reason for a signal kill.
- J0K3RX
- Degoop Doctor
Ok, I fixed the volume problem and a few other things... My board is so jacked up looking now with all of the soldering/desoldering, modifications yada yada blah blah... Anyway, who cares cause that's what it takes to get it right and I will make another one that looks all pretty! When I changed that 5th buffer stage Q5 to a gain stage it brought the output down... so, I added another buffer stage, it would be Q6 and SHAZAM! Yes, there will be a version 3 as soon as I get a moment so if anybody is in the middle of building this I am sorry You can always mod it like mine... And yes, I did trim the drain and all is baised at around 4.75v
I believe you have to have a buffer before and or after the tone stack..? I think before is better but I don't know for sure, it seems to elevate the tone stack and give it more functionality not to mention more output volume? I tried the SHO after the pedal and it sounded pretty good and boosted the volume but seemed to tweek the tone and feel a little... But I guess that could be a possibility... I like it before the tone stack plus less parts, one resistor and one J201.
All in all I am "VERY VERY!" happy with the sound but there is still one little thing that is bothering me..? The bass has very little range almost like a switch.. All the way down you can hear that it's off turn it just a little and you have medium bass and after that it doesn't make a difference. If you turn all of the mids off you can hear the changes in the bass knob better but with the mids up half way or more you don't hear much of a difference in the bass. Any ideas?
This pedal does not need a TS in front of it at all!!! It's a high gain mutha, and it's good gain not muddy or washed out sounding!!!! Sounds like real tube screaming in pain I will post some clips later
Edit: Mensur, do I have to sign up with Rapidshare to get that file?
I believe you have to have a buffer before and or after the tone stack..? I think before is better but I don't know for sure, it seems to elevate the tone stack and give it more functionality not to mention more output volume? I tried the SHO after the pedal and it sounded pretty good and boosted the volume but seemed to tweek the tone and feel a little... But I guess that could be a possibility... I like it before the tone stack plus less parts, one resistor and one J201.
All in all I am "VERY VERY!" happy with the sound but there is still one little thing that is bothering me..? The bass has very little range almost like a switch.. All the way down you can hear that it's off turn it just a little and you have medium bass and after that it doesn't make a difference. If you turn all of the mids off you can hear the changes in the bass knob better but with the mids up half way or more you don't hear much of a difference in the bass. Any ideas?
This pedal does not need a TS in front of it at all!!! It's a high gain mutha, and it's good gain not muddy or washed out sounding!!!! Sounds like real tube screaming in pain I will post some clips later
Edit: Mensur, do I have to sign up with Rapidshare to get that file?