Double Chip Doubler: +/-18v From Single 9V - Verified

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soulsonic
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Post by soulsonic »

Here's my idea for doing a bipolar voltage-doubled supply from a single 9v.
It was verified today on a breadboard and it seems to work fine.

From a battery that read 8.63v, I got +16.3v and -17.2v. I used 1N400x diodes - with low drop ones I'm sure the voltages will be closer to the same.

Also includes a layout and an image for making a board with press n' peel.
Check it out!
http://aronnelson.com/gallery/soulsonic ... ubler_copy

This replaces an earlier version of this idea found in my Cyclops schematic. The earlier version contains an error which has been fixed here.

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Post by JHS »

The draw back is that you get only 15ma out of this circuit, a single MAX1044 can deliver 20mA, any mA more causes a voltage drop on the output, but to power a MOSFET- or FET-booster it's OK.

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Post by soulsonic »

Well, as an example, a TL072 consumes a maximum of 5mA and typically it's only 2.8mA. This circuit can easily power the "average" stompbox that uses a couple opamps.

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Post by nelson »

What about the LT1054?

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Post by soulsonic »

I don't have any on hand to experiment with, but you're welcome to see if this topology works with other chips.

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Post by RnFR »

will that work with a max1044? it looks like they have similar pinouts.
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Post by cpm »

i think LT1054 is practically pin-compatible (the boost pin from MAX is not needed)
also, has a higher input voltage, and more current delivery.

I used one for a 18v flanger, where both MAX1044 and ICL7660 were falling short

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Post by Ripthorn »

I've done this with a single chip (provides my opamp bipolar voltage in a preamp) and works great. Though I have used the TC1044SE. I imagine all charge pumps can do it.
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Post by Barcode »

Just my two cents, my experience is that anything rnu from a charge pump is going to simply EAT batteries. However, as I never use batteries, this would work great for me. Thanks!

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Post by RnFR »

Barcode wrote:Just my two cents, my experience is that anything rnu from a charge pump is going to simply EAT batteries. However, as I never use batteries, this would work great for me. Thanks!
that's pretty much one of the reasons i want to use this set up. i'd like to get a -18v supply(or at least close) out of +9v.
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Post by RnFR »

hey, i made one too! :D
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Post by Barcode »

FYI for anyone who wants to use the vero layouts paosted (Thanks Guys!) all you have to do is skip the trace cut between pins 1 and 8 to jumper for a MAX1044, no need for the extra row.

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Post by RnFR »

ibodog2 wrote:
RnFR wrote:hey, i made one too! :D
Hey, watch your Vin, +Vout and -Vout on that one. Looks like they're each off by 1 row.

When I assembled mine I accidentally put the +9V and first diode up 1 row from where they should be. Turned a battery that measured +9.4V and turned it into a +9.0V one in about 15 seconds. The 1044 was getting pretty hot. :lol: I'm going to order the LT1054 and a couple other chips mentioned as replacements for the 1044 and try them in this same circuit.
thanks man- still workin out some quirks in this new program. it doesn't let you manually size the board so you end up reducing the size and everything is off by a space or two, then youhave to move it all. :roll: i'll fix it up later.
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Post by Ripthorn »

There will be about a .7-1.4V drop on each side due to the diodes, so with 9V, you will probably get out about +/-16-17V. You can use a series resistor if you know the current draw of the load. Alternatively, you can use a zener diode (my preferred method, about as cheap as a couple resistors, but more reliable) set to create a 7V reference voltage prior to the charge pump.
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Post by rocklander »

n00bish question here guys..
so this is actually producing +/-18V (PD of 36V?).. if I just use the common earth and +18V I can power an 18V flanger?
I want to build an 18V flanger but use my common 9v PSU, thought about integrating something like this.. is that going to work?
I'd looked at the tonepad +/-9V unit, but soon as I connect earth I can see all kindsa fireworks happen if I tried to make the -9V as the earth.. just can't get my st00pid head round this sorry..
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Post by rocklander »

so is anyone aware of some other way of powering my 18V flanger from a 9V PSU? the whole earth situation has me kinda boggled, cos even if I insulate the audio jacks, the cable will short earth to earth anyway :-( (I did search the forum first, but didn't come up with anyhing other than this thread on the first couple/three pages of results).
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Post by ansil »

ipose a question for you mostly i am trying to understand. don't you build your own power supplies over here. everyone i build always has at least one +/- output and two 18v taps. just wondering

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Post by soulsonic »

ansil wrote:ipose a question for you mostly i am trying to understand. don't you build your own power supplies over here. everyone i build always has at least one +/- output and two 18v taps. just wondering
Ha! Very good point! :lol:
Yeah, since we're just building things for ourselves, we may as well just build up whatever power supply is necessary from scratch and not have to mess with this stuff. Personally, I came up with the circuit at the beginning of the thread for fun just to see if I could do it. And it's sparked a great topic with some good discussion.
Speaking of power supplies, the multitap transformer that Weber sells for pedal power supplies works great for making a good isolated 9v supply. The only problem is it's a bit large and hard to fit into a small box. And the different windings aren't marked - all the wires are the same color! So, you have to take a meter and beep the whole thing out to see who is connected to who.
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Post by ansil »

soulsonic wrote:
ansil wrote:ipose a question for you mostly i am trying to understand. don't you build your own power supplies over here. everyone i build always has at least one +/- output and two 18v taps. just wondering
Ha! Very good point! :lol:
Yeah, since we're just building things for ourselves, we may as well just build up whatever power supply is necessary from scratch and not have to mess with this stuff. Personally, I came up with the circuit at the beginning of the thread for fun just to see if I could do it. And it's sparked a great topic with some good discussion.
Speaking of power supplies, the multitap transformer that Weber sells for pedal power supplies works great for making a good isolated 9v supply. The only problem is it's a bit large and hard to fit into a small box. And the different windings aren't marked - all the wires are the same color! So, you have to take a meter and beep the whole thing out to see who is connected to who.
thanks for answering that was clear and concise reasons. i have been there going through different taps on a transformer. i build stuff for all my friends and lived in the back of my shop for years so i had to get good building power supplies real quick cause everyone wanted a custom pedal board.
cool circuit though

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Post by Barcode »

rocklander wrote:n00bish question here guys..
so this is actually producing +/-18V (PD of 36V?).. if I just use the common earth and +18V I can power an 18V flanger?
I want to build an 18V flanger but use my common 9v PSU, thought about integrating something like this.. is that going to work?
I'd looked at the tonepad +/-9V unit, but soon as I connect earth I can see all kindsa fireworks happen if I tried to make the -9V as the earth.. just can't get my st00pid head round this sorry..
Dredging up this old thread because I realized we never answered Rocklander!

Although I'm sure he has figured it out in the last 2 years or so since the last post here, -9v and ground are not the same thing. Both polarity connections can share a common ground, and anything you need to run off +18v (or +9v, depending on whether you actually do the doubling part) can be hooked to the +V, anything that needs -V can be hooked to that tap, and ground is shared. When you have a bipolar supply, ground is technically 0V, not -9V. Ground is the reference point for the voltage potential, not a polarity.

When we use typical power supplies that provide 9VDC voltage, ground is still the same spot. We flip them when we want to use -9V so that the voltage swing is the other direction, but ground is technically in the same place, only the direction of the voltage potential changes. But the voltage is still "going" to ground from supply in both cases. It can be pictured like this:

Positive Voltage
|
v
GROUND
^
|
Negative voltage


Sorry to dredge up an old thread, just was browsing and noticed that we overlooked the question!

ps - This is a GROSS oversimplification of voltage for clarity's sake only. :)

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