EH Bad Stone Revisited

Original effect designs complete with verified schematics, layouts and instructions. All project were freely contributed by members and cannot be used for commercial purposes without consent of the respective owners of the copyright.
Scruffie
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Post by Scruffie »

DrNomis wrote:Hmmmm...as I recall,the LM324 is like having two JRC4558Ds in one package,the op amps in an LM324 are built using bipolar transistors,the thing about this particular IC is that it was designed to be able to be powered from a single supply rail,as well as dual supply rails,there isn't anything very special about this IC though,I might try building this pedal using a TLO74 (same pinout as an LM324) and some TLO72's,and I might try substituting a CD4049 for the CD4009,just for fun,might see if I can come up with a stripboard layout too... :)
TL074 Will almost definitley lead to a non-functioning unit as documented by many people, the 072s are fine in the rest of the circuit though, the 324 is an important chip as it's the LFO at the heart of the circuit and can lock up, this circuit is a bit picky when it comes to certain things and that's a big one.

The CD4049 and 4009 swap is also confirmed as working fine, with the 4049 possibly spending a longer time in the lower part of the sweep but that was never confirmed in blind tests.

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Post by Duckman »

In Topopiccione's page there's a little comment about how to left out the manual shift control, so I updated the schem to include this mod.
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Post by B Tremblay »

I can confirm that TL074 DOES NOT work in place of the LM324 and the 4049 DOES work in place of the 4009.
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Post by mictester »

B Tremblay wrote:I can confirm that TL074 DOES NOT work in place of the LM324 and the 4049 DOES work in place of the 4009.
The 324 is crucial to the way the oscillator works. It doesn't matter that it's an old-fashioned, noisy op-amp - it's not in the signal path. You could also use a pair of 4558s or four 741s!

If you're going to use a 4049, make sure it's a "U" type - unbuffered! The "B" version (buffered) won't work in the pseudo-linear mode that the circuit demands.
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Post by B Tremblay »

mictester wrote:
B Tremblay wrote:I can confirm that TL074 DOES NOT work in place of the LM324 and the 4049 DOES work in place of the 4009.
The 324 is crucial to the way the oscillator works. It doesn't matter that it's an old-fashioned, noisy op-amp - it's not in the signal path. You could also use a pair of 4558s or four 741s!

If you're going to use a 4049, make sure it's a "U" type - unbuffered! The "B" version (buffered) won't work in the pseudo-linear mode that the circuit demands.
Right on. I just wanted to make it clear to Dr. Nomis, who was planning to try a TL074, that it will not work.
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Post by DrNomis »

No worries,


I am surprised that the LFO section is that picky about what IC you use though,normally electronic circuits are designed to work fine within a certain tolerance range,although,there have been cases in the past where certain brands of ICs used in Televisions failed to work correctly,but we're talking about a circuit designed to work at low frequencies....hmmmm...I must investigate this by breadboarding just the LFO circuit,maybe I might discover something.... :)


I really appreciate all advice given by everyone here,I believe that shows the true spirit of this website.... :)
Genius is not all about 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration - sometimes the solution is staring you right in the face.-Frequencycentral.

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Post by abfackeln »

Bumpity bump.....
I believe we're at the point that we can move forward with a group buy of these boards. I'll be "hosting" the order (since I've done a few already) for the boards that Scruffie, Duckman and Ryan (of Dr. Scientist) have designed. Still working on the quote and total qty, but the boards will be coming from Express PCB, which is who I used for the first runs of Aqua Puss pcb's. Any interest here? I should have an order page up by the weekend, similar to what was used for the double-delay boards.

Here's a shot of the prototype build - I believe the final version of the board that the boys have worked on has been shrunk a bit as well. They really did a good job on the layout, and it's a great sounding phaser.....
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Post by HEAD »

That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

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Post by Barcode »

DrNomis wrote:No worries,


I am surprised that the LFO section is that picky about what IC you use though,normally electronic circuits are designed to work fine within a certain tolerance range,although,there have been cases in the past where certain brands of ICs used in Televisions failed to work correctly,but we're talking about a circuit designed to work at low frequencies....hmmmm...I must investigate this by breadboarding just the LFO circuit,maybe I might discover something.... :)


I really appreciate all advice given by everyone here,I believe that shows the true spirit of this website.... :)
It doesn't surprise me. Although that may be because I've built dozens of tremolos and can't get an NE5532 to work in the LFO section for ANY of them. A pedal building friend suggested that because an LFO is based on de-stabilizing the opamp, that certain op amps may not be as easy to get to oscillate. This could be why the old crappy opamp works better :)

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Post by DrNomis »

Hi Barcode,



I just remembered some electronics theory,from when I did a basic electronics course at uni,let's see... :)


For an oscillator to work,there are two conditions that need to be fulfilled:

1,The total phase-shift should equal 360 degrees,that is,180 degrees phase shift through the circuit,plus an extra 180 degrees through the positive feedback path from the output back into the input of the gain stage.

2,Total circuit gain greater than unity,or 1,to overcome losses in the circuit.


If those conditions are met,the circuit will oscillate.... :)
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Post by Barcode »

DrNomis wrote:Hi Barcode,



I just remembered some electronics theory,from when I did a basic electronics course at uni,let's see... :)


For an oscillator to work,there are two conditions that need to be fulfilled:

1,The total phase-shift should equal 360 degrees,that is,180 degrees phase shift through the circuit,plus an extra 180 degrees through the positive feedback path from the output back into the input of the gain stage.

2,Total circuit gain greater than unity,or 1,to overcome losses in the circuit.


If those conditions are met,the circuit will oscillate.... :)
well, book smarts are important, but they don't match life experience :)

in every tremolo I've built (which is many), real-life experience says that NE5532 didn't work, but TL072 or 4558 have worked after popping them in the same spot, with no changes to the circuit.

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Post by DrNomis »

Well,I think I have some NE5532 ICs somewhere,I might investigate this..... :)
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Post by Nocentelli »

abfackeln wrote:...I should have an order page up by the weekend, similar to what was used for the double-delay boards.
:applause:
Steven_M wrote: 21 Jan 2011, 17:52
biffa wrote: Sorry,but u r not the only member here

I'm not? Well fuck this site then. I only want meaningful conversations with myself.

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Post by mictester »

HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
OK - I get the message! I'll get drawing this week, and you can try it out. I'll do a Vero and a PCB for it, too. I'll get to work tomorrow night.
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Post by Scruffie »

HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
That may be so... but does Mictesters Phaser have a sweet Vibrato Function? (Knowing him... yes it probably does) Anyway, we've done this as the project now, you'll have to make Mictesters from his PCB layout.

Just to mention Duckman is the sole layout creator really, I just added a few minor add ons/suggestions and did the arranging, Ryan gets special thanks for having the Prototype boards made for me and Abfackeln is the Prototyper and Runner.

For anyone that was concerned with the Volume drop of the original Bad Stone, we now have that sorted with an added output LPB-1 Booster too (with seperate inputs and outputs to allow for switching it out when swithched to the louder vibrato mode) so these boards should be pretty nice once built up.

It should be a nice easy build with easy to aquire components (no OTAs like alot of phasers and no FET matching, fairly standard value components too) and has the added bonus of onboard pots and the onboard booster (with trimmer for set & forget) and no boost in vibrato now with the switching out.

There's also an added extra pad for the Manual pot if you should desire it for an expression pedal, you just tap off that and remove one of the resistors.

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Post by HEAD »

mictester wrote:
HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
OK - I get the message! I'll get drawing this week, and you can try it out. I'll do a Vero and a PCB for it, too. I'll get to work tomorrow night.
:applause:
I am realy looking forward to this! But don't get me wrong - I know you had a comptuter breakdown and I highly appreciate all things you contribute here with us in your (probably) small spare time. So thank you very much!

Helge

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Post by HEAD »

Scruffie wrote:
HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
That may be so... but does Mictesters Phaser have a sweet Vibrato Function? (Knowing him... yes it probably does) Anyway, we've done this as the project now, you'll have to make Mictesters from his PCB layout.

Just to mention Duckman is the sole layout creator really, I just added a few minor add ons/suggestions and did the arranging, Ryan gets special thanks for having the Prototype boards made for me and Abfackeln is the Prototyper and Runner.

For anyone that was concerned with the Volume drop of the original Bad Stone, we now have that sorted with an added output LPB-1 Booster too (with seperate inputs and outputs to allow for switching it out when swithched to the louder vibrato mode) so these boards should be pretty nice once built up.

It should be a nice easy build with easy to aquire components (no OTAs like alot of phasers and no FET matching, fairly standard value components too) and has the added bonus of onboard pots and the onboard booster (with trimmer for set & forget) and no boost in vibrato now with the switching out.

There's also an added extra pad for the Manual pot if you should desire it for an expression pedal, you just tap off that and remove one of the resistors.
I didn't want to degrade your affords! :oops: I probably going to buld both!:)

Helge

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Post by Scruffie »

HEAD wrote:
Scruffie wrote:
HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
That may be so... but does Mictesters Phaser have a sweet Vibrato Function? (Knowing him... yes it probably does) Anyway, we've done this as the project now, you'll have to make Mictesters from his PCB layout.

Just to mention Duckman is the sole layout creator really, I just added a few minor add ons/suggestions and did the arranging, Ryan gets special thanks for having the Prototype boards made for me and Abfackeln is the Prototyper and Runner.

For anyone that was concerned with the Volume drop of the original Bad Stone, we now have that sorted with an added output LPB-1 Booster too (with seperate inputs and outputs to allow for switching it out when swithched to the louder vibrato mode) so these boards should be pretty nice once built up.

It should be a nice easy build with easy to aquire components (no OTAs like alot of phasers and no FET matching, fairly standard value components too) and has the added bonus of onboard pots and the onboard booster (with trimmer for set & forget) and no boost in vibrato now with the switching out.

There's also an added extra pad for the Manual pot if you should desire it for an expression pedal, you just tap off that and remove one of the resistors.
I didn't want to degrade your affords! :oops: I probably going to buld both!:)

Helge
Oh no I didn't take it as that :) was just saying, this is the project we've done and explained a bit more about it for those interested :thumbsup

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Post by borislavgajic »

mictester wrote:
HEAD wrote:That would be indeed pretty nice. But to be honest I'm more interessted in Mictesters 4066 based phaser if he ever will come up with that. IMHO that would bei a nice "forum project" like the aqua puss. ;)

Helge
OK - I get the message! I'll get drawing this week, and you can try it out. I'll do a Vero and a PCB for it, too. I'll get to work tomorrow night.
:hug: :hug: :hug:

thanks mictester!

.....and I must say this Badstone looks really great!......some clips....video demo???

:thumbsup

Boris

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Post by culturejam »

I'm definitely in for a board (or two).

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