Russian germaniums gt308/ gt404 - low HFEs

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 06 Jun 2009, 14:07

I bought a large batch from that seller Gordelux recently.
The guy promised/assured that he would personally select the batches in the 60-80 and 120 HFE ranges for me.
Well, how disappointing. They are all good low leakage but the HFEs are pathetic.
Using the good old RG method:

The 308s came in mostly grouped around 30-40 range
The 404s around 50-60.

Of course I emailed him but you should read the pompous bullshit this guy answers.
He signs off with
"In addition, except for you, these transistors bought professionals from around the world. And yet none of them complained about the low Hfe"
Which is horse-shit because I remember someone here having the same experience.
There is no shunt resistor in these throwing out the readings? I know it's true of the 313s I can't find any reference to it with these.
So guys, he is one to avoid. And $50 wasted for me.

theblackman · Post by **theblackman** » 06 Jun 2009, 14:14

check out the germanium transistor thread.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 06 Jun 2009, 14:26

Yeah.
I am in the middle of negotiating with that ass-hat right now, so i want to grab the experiences of others.
And warn people away.
The turd won't believe my readings.
Says it's "impossible" .
No more fine western dollars for him.

rrhoads33 · Post by **rrhoads33** » 06 Jun 2009, 19:32

Same problem here:

Ordered 150 trannies from the same seller (Gains 40-50 and 50-60 mainly), I was disappointed too, but they sound really good;

I thin, that I've read somewhere, that those trannies have somewhere an internal resistance, which makes the hfe look smaller, than it actually is; How did you measure them? With a DMM or like described on geofex?

Cheers

playon · Post by **playon** » 06 Jun 2009, 20:33

Igloo wrote: He signs off with
"In addition, except for you, these transistors bought professionals from around the world. And yet none of them complained about the low Hfe"

Which is total bullshit -- I complained about it too. And that's exactly what he told me, that no one else ever complained, it was "impossible" blah blah. I took out a paypal claim on his ass and sent them back to him, you should do the same. And no matter what he says, don't remove the claim until you get your refund in your bank account.

And not only do they test low, they perform that way in a circuit as well. They might be fine for some circuits but he shouldn't be misrepresenting them.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 07 Jun 2009, 00:39

Thanks guys.

Still back and forth with the emails... he is such difficult person - no concept of reputation or repeat business.
I would have been happy to a be an ongoing customer if this guy had fixed the problem. I chose him out of about three potential sellers, mostly because of the photo of him and his adorable looking grand daughter in the freezing Russian winter.
That's what sentimentality will get you. Should have seen how friendly the bastard was before the sale. He could just smell that lovely western currency.
Different story now. Total prick. And probably a liar.
Dead trannies in my "personally selected batch" too.
Trying to think of other possibilities that would throw out the readings. Perhaps he has some P.O.S. Russian HFE tester that just fails. He seems to understand about base junction leakage within the results.
I don't think there are shunt resistors with these two devices.
Just have to face the fact that Grandfatherly Vladmir is a bold-faced liar.
Only thing is.....
I may be too late for a Paypal claim.. There is a delay while the Paypal goes to some organization called "Western Bid" and then on to him. Then the shipping delay THEN me being too busy until this weekend to test them so all up more than 45 days.
I hate being ripped off.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 07 Jun 2009, 00:47

rrhoads33 wrote:Same problem here:

Ordered 150 trannies from the same seller (Gains 40-50 and 50-60 mainly), I was disappointed too, but they sound really good;

I thin, that I've read somewhere, that those trannies have somewhere an internal resistance, which makes the hfe look smaller, than it actually is; How did you measure them? With a DMM or like described on geofex?

Cheers

Both.
The leakage on the 308s was minimal so a regular multimeter with an HFE tester will be OK for rough groupng. But I also used GEO method on each one of them.
Here's the 308s. Gordylux promised groups of HFE60-80 and HFE 120 I got -

1T308V
20-30 2
30-40 18
40-50 9
50-60 14
60-70 6
70-80 1

total 50

The fact that there are two groupings separated by ~HFE 30 makes me wonder about his equipment.

IvIark · Post by **IvIark** » 07 Jun 2009, 01:50

The lowest gain in the GT308's I bought from orpheus_2005 was 56, and 95 out of 100 were between 60 and 85. Not a lot of high gainers but they're all usable and sound great. I'm pleased with some GT322As from gordelux04 which are much smaller than the GT308's and includes more higher gain trannies, but the GT308's sound better to me.

playon · Post by **playon** » 07 Jun 2009, 03:15

You should still contact ebay about this seller. I'll be glad to chime in. Also try with paypal, it can't hurt. Any transaction overseas or with a suspect seller, always use a credit card thru paypal as it's another recourse in case you aren't happy with merchandise.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 07 Jun 2009, 05:29

Yeah.
I want some results with this guy.
I think I will.

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 09 Jun 2009, 10:39

I got some GT308 from Orpheus2005, and most seem to be 60 to 80-ish.
But, 1T308 isn't necessarily the same as GT308 - probably have different tolerances. Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with yours generally, but your are right about that guy not representing them honestly... my guess is that he probably didn't test them at all and just assumed they'd probably be around that range or whatever.

I believe RnFR has had good luck with this guy. I don't know, I've only ever ordered from the Bulgarian guy.

The GT313 is the one with the internal biasing resistor. I've measured it to be ~100k between Base and Emitter. It's pretty cool because you can arrange the circuit with just a ~470k-1M resistor from B+ to Base and get it to bias no problem.

But it looks like the guy's trying to rip you off. That sucks.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 09 Jun 2009, 12:55

Yeah.
I think he's relying on the alleged data sheets.
Thing is, I emailed him before buying and he assured me he could provide specific gain ranges. Naturally I nominated two groups : ~ HFE 60-80 and HFE120.
His answer:
" Please buy. All the transistors that you have listed I have in large quantities. Hfe in these limits you, I can provide."

Once I emailed him that the HFEs all came in so low, I got this

"I very much appreciate your experience, but I must inform you that the transistors 1T308V, this is an improved version of the transistor GT308V with military receiving, and these transistors by definition, that is, in technical terms with more than 80 Hfe.
Therefore, what you have written, full of nonsense. Even the fact that you tried to measure this parameter using the digital tester, has already said for me. The digital tester can not determine the efficiency of the transistor (only pn-junction breakdown or absence of the truncation of the electrical circuit inside the transistor.) This device may not provide the conditions and modes of measurement defined in technical terms and, therefore, the measure Hfe with 100% error and more. I personally checked all the transistors before they are sent, and the Hfe recorded by me on the bags from the instrument. Believe me, I have too much experience with transistors, more than 35 years. And I have a professional apparatus, plant construction, is specially designed to work with transistors. Arguing that the transistors 1T308V Hfe less than 80 you have to argue that our entire industry and military approval - just a kindergarten and a jigger is not worth it. I assure you, you are greatly mistaken. In addition, except for you, these transistors bought professionals from around the world. And yet none of them complained about the low Hfe. Again, I checked them myself personally and I am confident that I speak.
Regards. Vladimir"

So you see the change of tone and true asshole-personality reveal itself.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 09 Jun 2009, 12:56

Oh BTW "kindergarten jigger" is his take on R.G.s method....
Seeing as dickhead 'personally selected' them, he must have 'personally selected' the dead ones I received too.
I think this must be some kind of standard response he sends to everyone who complains about the low HFEs.
He is just a bullshitter.

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 10 Jun 2009, 00:35

yeah, i've bought from this guy before, but i never put any constraints on the transaction or had any real communication. that being said, i received what i ordered, and for the record was also taken in by the the pic of him and the little girl in the frozen russian tundra! whether or not i'm going to order from him any more is probably less than likely. orpheus will probably get my money from now on.

i did measure some GT308s from jrod that were from a batch with considerably lower Hfe than the ones i received. they had a red dot painted on the top of the can. did you see any dots on the trannies?

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 10 Jun 2009, 00:49

Yes his "HFE80" bag had red dots and the a "HFE120+" lot had grey dots.
The actual HFEs were in no way related to his sorting. They were as above and pretty evenly mixed grey/red at all levels.

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 10 Jun 2009, 01:04

if i remember right, the red dots were between 40-60 where as the greys were more like 60-80.

on another note, i'm starting to think that this thread should be merged into the big Ge thread.

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 10 Jun 2009, 01:19

Yeah, It has served it's purpose.
Go ahead.

rrhoads33 · Post by **rrhoads33** » 10 Jun 2009, 09:14

IMHO it would be better not to merge them.

I like it better, when threads are only small and discuss one issue. If they are merged, those who want infos about the hfe and that stuff have to search longer and the others are angry because they have to read through all that "boring" posts, even if they wanted to read something else about the germanium trannies from Russia.

Cheers

Igloo · Post by **Igloo** » 10 Jun 2009, 11:08

So he keeps suggesting I have faulty equipment or calculations.
Because finest Russian military construction 1T308 only ever produce HFE minimum 80 blah blah.
I sent him this. Typical pissweak HFE. Wonder what will he say this time. I am still on this prick.
I think you are supposed to give up after the first bullshit barrage or two.
I know, I know he will suggest I froze it especially for the photo, lets see.

jrod · Post by **jrod** » 10 Jun 2009, 13:44

I was told the same thing by that seller, that there was no way hfe could be any lower than the data sheet shows. There is a thread regarding the GT308V's over at diy.com suggesting that they read low like the 313's. After RnFR tested a batch of 308's for me (thanks again

) with his Peak tester I am convinced that we are getting accurate readings for these. The 308's that I got were in a sealed box of 100, so they could not have been sorted. Considering how cheap they are I never really confronted him. But, after hearing these stories, I think I'll move on to another seller if I order any more Russian transistors.

Peace!