Kay - Fuzztone (F-1)  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

Bits box it is then.... Cheers for all your help.
J.
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Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

Scruffie wrote:No worries :hug:

Okay... i've done a quick one :whappen: , completely unchecked and i'm a bit sceptical of the output section but give it a go for now... bit tight 'cause I was aiming for a 1590B fit but failed Miserably.

(True Bypass & DC it to your hearts content)

Edit: Re-Uploaded to Fix Missing Track Cuts
Hi there, found this schematic https://trabantland.files.wordpress.com/ ... bfuzz3.jpg. Same site as the SDD3000 pre amp pedel.... which sound amazing, definatly on the list of lust!
I'm a bit puzzeled because quite a few of the resistors and two caps (C9 and C10) are of differing values. Does this matter? What will be the difference if any in opperation.
J.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley
or...
"Pog mo thoin!"

Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

... to continue from above....
Re resistor values: did occour to me that this might qualify as a "REQUEST"!
Sorry if I've bent the rules....
Are the differing values just a case of acceptable alternatives?
Please chime in...

Regards,
J.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley
or...
"Pog mo thoin!"

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Post by lolbou »

Fastnet wrote:Re resistor values: did occour to me that this might qualify as a "REQUEST"!
Nope, it's about the circuitry itself, so it's welcomed in the Circuit Analysis subforum... :wink:
Fastnet wrote:Seriously though, have been checking out youtubes "how to etch a board" and not sure about all those chemicals.... On a scale of 1-10 how difficult is it to obtain all the necessary and achieve a working result?
I posted a How-to on the forum, might help you to get more confident! :D
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Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

Ok gents, been busy elsewhare and still trying to find the correct parts...
Would anybody know what the alternatives are regarding 2N5088? I've looked everywhere and can't find any!
Also if I sub the 2n5088 do I need to sub the 2n3904 as well?
And on a sounds front what gives the more pronounced octave, Silicon or Germanium?
This demo sounds great to my ears....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUgH0VEM ... yigBBBpbJw

Cheers,
J.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley
or...
"Pog mo thoin!"

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Post by Scruffie »

Fastnet wrote:Ok gents, been busy elsewhare and still trying to find the correct parts...
Would anybody know what the alternatives are regarding 2N5088? I've looked everywhere and can't find any!
Also if I sub the 2n5088 do I need to sub the 2n3904 as well?
And on a sounds front what gives the more pronounced octave, Silicon or Germanium?
This demo sounds great to my ears....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUgH0VEM ... yigBBBpbJw

Cheers,
J.
All answered on the last post of the last page, stick in 2N3904s rather than 2N5088s and Germanium diodes i.e. 1N34As will give more octave but silicon such as 1N4148 will atleast work, bitsbox stocks both the 1N34A & 2N3904.

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Post by Solidhex »

Fastnet wrote:Ok gents, been busy elsewhare and still trying to find the correct parts...
Would anybody know what the alternatives are regarding 2N5088? I've looked everywhere and can't find any!
Also if I sub the 2n5088 do I need to sub the 2n3904 as well?
And on a sounds front what gives the more pronounced octave, Silicon or Germanium?
This demo sounds great to my ears....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUgH0VEM ... yigBBBpbJw

Cheers,
J.

If you want a pronounced octave match the gains in the octave section. I prefer slightly mismatched in this circuit though since it can get sort of thin sounding when the octave is too dialed in. The kind of guitar and amp used is really important with this pedal. You'll notice the guitar sound is pretty twangy and the amp is pretty clean. The twangyness makes for a noisier raspier tone once the fuzz gets to it. This gives more high frequencies for the tone control to work with. A cleaner amp will give a clearer reproduction of the sweep. A dark guitar with humbuckers into a slightly distorted amp will sound subtle by comparison.

Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

[/quote]
All answered on the last post of the last page, stick in 2N3904s rather than 2N5088s and Germanium diodes i.e. 1N34As will give more octave but silicon such as 1N4148 will atleast work, bitsbox stocks both the 1N34A & 2N3904.[/quote]


Hello again, thanks for all your help...
Having had a chance to re-read through Beavis's pages I'm following his advice and starting to fill a basket...
Bitsbox don't list a 250k lin pot.... Could I get away with using a 100k lin pot with another resistor somewhere to make up the difference?

"Scruffie"... I was chatting to Dave about his "Rabfuzz" projecthttps://trabantland.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... arts-list/ and he noted that because silicon clips at a higher volume the side effect was a volume boost to the effect. If the 1n4148 as you say "will at least work", while I'm filling my basket what alternatives to the silicon could I try.... just curious as to the change in sound with other components. Is there much if any?

Many thanks,
J.
Just to add the volume pedal that I will be gutting has a 300k pot... can I use this?
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Post by Scruffie »

Bitsbox do have a 220k Linear if you don't mind using a blue plastic pot or, you can use a 470k pot and put a 470k resistor across lugs 1&3 to get it down to 235k, it'll change the sweep a bit but it'll probably be okay.

Using Germanium will just give a more pronounced octave effect so you can stick 1N34A in, close enough to the OA90, that's what you'll get but the silicon will still clip the signal the same, just not as octavey.
(I just checked and see bitsbox now has the OA91 too, that'd be perfect"

You can try any diodes you want really, LEDs will work, anything from the 1N400X series... schotkys... it's just a clipping section, different diodes will give different tones, more or less compression, more or less volume, more or less pronounced octaving, just have to try and see what you like.

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Post by Fastnet »

:applause:
OA91's it is then.... Luckily I didn't quite get round to finishing the order yesterday...the OA91's must have become available just after I logged out! I see OA95's as well so depending on the total I'll order a selection for homework!
What about my 300k pot? Can I reduce that down? I only ask as it has all the gearing attached already....

Cheers,

J.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley
or...
"Pog mo thoin!"

Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

:horsey:
Ok,
I've bitten the bullet and blown £40 on bits to fill my box with all kinds of goddies!
A selection of diodes germanium and silicon to see what sounds the best.... Funny idea just came to me... Can you mix silicon with germanium?
....and can you mix germanium with germanium? OA91's with OA95's?!
Thanks again for everyones input, I'll report back with the results!....and the teething troubles!!!
:applause:
Regards,
J.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley
or...
"Pog mo thoin!"

Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

Evening all... :?
So I've done the board but I've no signal when the effect is engaged....
In the layout kindly provided by Scruffie the image of Q4 is round the other way but the pin labels are the same as Q1,2 & 3. Anyway in case that was the problem I reversed that and burnt out the LED... so it's back as Scruffie's layout... by the way, as a consequence of the dead LED will Q4 be toast as well?
I wanted to post some pics but can't work out how to shrink them for the memory size.. Anyone?
Now this might sound like an oversight but I'm still having to use the original 500k pot that was in the volume pedal as the pots I ordered from bitsbox were too small... my first mistake in an order but hopefully not the first of many :lol:
Speaking of which who sells online a wah pot that dosen't cost boutique prices in the UK?

I'll do know a boffin for the pics but he's hard to get hold of so please chime in and show me the errors of my ways...for any of my Q's!
Cheers all,
J.
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Post by Scruffie »

Fastnet wrote:Evening all... :?
So I've done the board but I've no signal when the effect is engaged....
In the layout kindly provided by Scruffie the image of Q4 is round the other way but the pin labels are the same as Q1,2 & 3. Anyway in case that was the problem I reversed that and burnt out the LED... so it's back as Scruffie's layout... by the way, as a consequence of the dead LED will Q4 be toast as well?
I wanted to post some pics but can't work out how to shrink them for the memory size.. Anyone?
Now this might sound like an oversight but I'm still having to use the original 500k pot that was in the volume pedal as the pots I ordered from bitsbox were too small... my first mistake in an order but hopefully not the first of many :lol:
Speaking of which who sells online a wah pot that dosen't cost boutique prices in the UK?

I'll do know a boffin for the pics but he's hard to get hold of so please chime in and show me the errors of my ways...for any of my Q's!
Cheers all,
J.
There's Collectors & Emitters labelled on the layout, you'll have to check the datasheets of your transistors to match them up.

No reason Q4 would be dead I don't think... should survive... but I can't be sure.

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Post by Dan N »

Try cutting the track between C1 and R3 and see what happens.

Also, that R16/Lug 2 connection goes to C10/R15/Out. Of course, you could do that off-board.

Are you using a current limiting resistor for your LED?
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Post by RnFR »

Fastnet wrote: I wanted to post some pics but can't work out how to shrink them for the memory size.. Anyone?
you can do that at an image hosting site like photobucket. just upload the image, then you can manipulate it however you like, and then save it again. or just link to the photobucket address.
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Fastnet
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Post by Fastnet »

Hi Gents,
Thanks for the solution for the pics, I'll get signed up to photobucket without delay but the pics are on my home machine so my unveiling will be tomorrow... Cheers RnFR...

Dan, thanks for the advice... Am I correct in you saying "move Lug2 to C24?"
As for the Led's, I bought these red ones from Bitsbox. http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/optos.html
Any ideas regarding the wah pot? Will the 500k work to confirm the functioning status of the circuit and do you know where I can get a 200k version as per Scruffies layout? If 200k's are difficult to source what changes are needed to use either the existing 500k or to use a standard 100k wah pot that are more commonly available? ...Not forgetting the obvious, online and cheaply in the UK!

Regards to all,
J.
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Post by analogguru »

RnFR wrote:
Fastnet wrote: I wanted to post some pics but can't work out how to shrink them for the memory size.. Anyone?
you can do that at an image hosting site like photobucket. just upload the image, then you can manipulate it however you like, and then save it again. or just link to the photobucket address.
You don´t need photobucket for this. Download the freeware program XnView:

http://www.xnview.com/

and you can cut away the unnecessary surrounding area, convert the pixel/inch, change colors, and convert from one format to another with a mouse click.

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Post by Dan N »

Fastnet wrote: Am I correct in you saying "move Lug2 to C24?".
There is no C24.

If you cut the track between C1 and R3 the circuit should fuzz but the tone pot is out of circuit. If you connect Lug 2 to the spot marked on the board AND to the spot marked Out, you will have brought the pot back into the correct location in the circuit.

Your 500K pot will probably have enough effect to see if your build is working. I suspect you will get a long dead (no change) area on one end of the rotation as the original was not even using the full sweep of the 250K.

LEDs need a current limiting resistor or the full charge of your battery can kill them. Attach at least a 1K resistor to one leg of the LED and you'll be good.
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Post by Scruffie »

Has anyone actually compared my layout to the schematic because I certainly haven't, could be completely wrong! :mrgreen:

It was mererly an attempt at one... don't think I have time to check it or certainly build it.

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Post by Dan N »

Other than the one track cut and the pot wiring clarification, it looks right to me.

It would have been nice if your part numbers matched AG's, but I know you were just throwing this together as a favor and that is a nice thing to do. :wink:
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