Colorsound- One Knob Fuzz  [schematic]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
analogguru
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Post by analogguru »

Mr. G. wrote:Anybody tried anything like 2N5089/5088 in this pedal?

I ask because I only have some BC108's, and no BC109's at the moment.

Any other transistors that might sound good in this circuit?
A BC108 IS the same as a BC109 (and a BC107). They are produced all at the same time at the same wafer with the same process.

The differentation is done (only) later by selection:
High Vce specs-chips get marked BC107, low noise specs-chips get marked BC109. A BC 108 doesn´t fullfill the high Vce specs needed to become a BC107 and it doesn´t fullfill the low-noise specs needed to become a BC109 but the chip is identical.

The original BC10x types were offered in a metal-case (for better power dissipation). I highly doubt that the BC107 offered in a plastic-case on evilbay are "real" BC107´s therefore I can´t recommend to buy them.

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Post by sonicvi »

I've seen plastic case BC109's in a couple of original Colorsound Overdriver/Power Boost photos. I've never seen one with metal can transistors.

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Post by analogguru »

sonicvi wrote:I've seen plastic case BC109's in a couple of original Colorsound Overdriver/Power Boost photos. I've never seen one with metal can transistors.
That are BC169 transistors which are used in the Overdriver/Power Boost, not BC109´s.
BC 109´s were used in the 70´s DMI Fuzz-Face´s.

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Post by sonicvi »

analogguru wrote:
sonicvi wrote:I've seen plastic case BC109's in a couple of original Colorsound Overdriver/Power Boost photos. I've never seen one with metal can transistors.
That are BC169 transistors which are used in the Overdriver/Power Boost, not BC109´s.
BC 109´s were used in the 70´s DMI Fuzz-Face´s.

analogguru
I've seen BC169B's but these are the one's I'm referring to. I know you can't see the print in this picture and I can't find the photo in which you can read it, but they say BC109 unless it's a 6 that looks like a 0.
Image

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Post by analogguru »

....but they say BC109 unless it's a 6 that looks like a 0.
The transistors you are referring are either ZTX109 or BC109BP (P for plastic), both made by Ferranti.

BC109B: 20V/200mA/300mW ß: 240-500/2mA F<4dB fT>150 MHz
BC109BP: 20V/200mA/300mW ß: 240-500/2mA F<4dB fT: 300MHz
ZTX109B: 30V/100mA/300mW ß: 240-500/2mA F<4dB fT: 350 MHz

As you can see the transit frequency of the Ferranti made transistors is in the 300 MHz region leading to the assumption that they used a different chip architecture.

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Post by cpm »

for wha
FearlessFlyingFrog wrote:As I understand it, the pot is supposed to deliver a 50/50 mix of original signal and effect, right?
that AW layout is the same as the schematic with 2 transistors, so no mixing there
is there a schematic with the additional 3rd transistor for the blend?

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Post by salocin »

Just built one of these using the fuzzcentral layout. Used a couple of BC109s in the 350hfe range, sounds pretty good to my ears. Haven't tried any other transistors as I'm quite happy with it as is.

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Post by cpm »

by the way, i've used a 5k pot in series with the 82ohm resistor. increasing this total resistance gives a more open sounding distortion (not better, just different), and past that point it starts to gate and sound really "angry" (its mice too)

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Post by bluebox »

I have a One Knob Fuzz from Macari's. It is the older one without the internal trimpot. Ant Macari was going to have one of the boffins send some'fitting instructions' for a 100k trimpot some time ago. Would anyone have an idea how to wire up the internal trimpot? Thank you in advance.

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Post by MoreCowbell »

analogguru wrote:
Image

analogguru
Great picture AG.

(Note that it confirms what I've said all along - that it is a "820 ohm" resistor, not a "82 ohm". Note the "grey-red-brown" bands, not "grey-red-black" on the upper left resistor.)

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Post by Electric Warrior »

AG built that one. 82Ω would be correct. there's a picture in this thread over at diystompboxes: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... c=48885.60

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Post by theehman »

MoreCowbell wrote:
analogguru wrote:
Image

analogguru
Great picture AG.

(Note that it confirms what I've said all along - that it is a "820 ohm" resistor, not a "82 ohm". Note the "grey-red-brown" bands, not "grey-red-black" on the upper left resistor.)
I think it looks more like black than brown.
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Post by MoreCowbell »

theehman wrote:
MoreCowbell wrote:
analogguru wrote:

Great picture AG.

(Note that it confirms what I've said all along - that it is a "820 ohm" resistor, not a "82 ohm". Note the "grey-red-brown" bands, not "grey-red-black" on the upper left resistor.)
I think it looks more like black than brown.
Seriously ? To me it looks NOTHING like the black shown on the other resistors.

Here's an enlargement -
Attachments
CS1KF RES.JPG

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Post by sonicvi »

Here's a pic of an old Jennings fuzz that is the same circuit as the One Knob. It's 82ohms in that pedal. It also has a 4.7K instead of the 2.2K.
Image

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Post by analogguru »

It is claimed that the Colorsound Fuzz Box ("1-knob Fuzz") uses the same fuzz circuit as was used in the Rotosound Fuzz, and several Jennings pedals like the Growler.

When you look at the picture of the Jennings Growler below, the resistor in doubt at the right lower corner is a 82 Ohm resistor.

(BTW, the resistor in the picture is indeed a 820 Ohm, which was exchanged by a 82 Ohm shortly after I took the picture. I never thought that this picture ever will be used as a "reference". It was only taken to animate Stu to build his own.):
https://www.stompboxes.co.uk/forum/viewt ... uzz#p26742

Edit:
Ooops, sonicvi was faster....
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Post by MoreCowbell »

The plot thickens. The pedal sounds good with both a "82R" and a "820R" ...either works just fine - just changes the "perceived" output level on the volume knob.

I agree that it's a 82R in the Jennings you pictured AG (and certainly a 820R in the original photo)

Thanks for the pics soniciv and AG . I wish we could dig up more board photos of the actual Colorsound units.

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Post by analogguru »

MoreCowbell wrote:The plot thickens. The pedal sounds good with both a "82R" and a "820R" ...either works just fine - just changes the "perceived" output level on the volume knob.

I agree that it's a 82R in the Jennings you pictured AG (and certainly a 820R in the original photo)
the close-up picture showing the 820 ohm is NOT from an original unit, it was cloned by me (with a wrong value first).
more about that can be found in the link above.
MoreCowbell wrote: Thanks for the pics soniciv and AG . I wish we could dig up more board photos of the actual Colorsound units.
For what ? I think, everything should be clear enough now.

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Post by MoreCowbell »

analogguru wrote:
MoreCowbell wrote:The plot thickens. The pedal sounds good with both a "82R" and a "820R" ...either works just fine - just changes the "perceived" output level on the volume knob.

I agree that it's a 82R in the Jennings you pictured AG (and certainly a 820R in the original photo)
the close-up picture showing the 820 ohm is NOT from an original unit, it was cloned by me (with a wrong value first).
more about that can be found in the link above.
MoreCowbell wrote: Thanks for the pics soniciv and AG . I wish we could dig up more board photos of the actual Colorsound units.
For what ? I think, everything should be clear enough now.

analogguru

Ah, OK - I was under the impression that the board was from a production unit, NOT a clone built by you. It wasn't mentioned in the original post that it was a "clone", is housed in an original enclosure, and sits next to the original box, so that accounts for any confusion. The inference is easy to make that it's a production unit (given the enclosure, box, and lack of "clone" mention).

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Post by analogguru »

MoreCowbell wrote:
analogguru wrote:
MoreCowbell wrote:The plot thickens. The pedal sounds good with both a "82R" and a "820R" ...either works just fine - just changes the "perceived" output level on the volume knob.

I agree that it's a 82R in the Jennings you pictured AG (and certainly a 820R in the original photo)
the close-up picture showing the 820 ohm is NOT from an original unit, it was cloned by me (with a wrong value first).
more about that can be found in the link above.
MoreCowbell wrote: Thanks for the pics soniciv and AG . I wish we could dig up more board photos of the actual Colorsound units.
For what ? I think, everything should be clear enough now.

analogguru

Ah, OK - I was under the impression that the board was from a production unit, NOT a clone built by you. It wasn't mentioned in the original post that it was a "clone", is housed in an original enclosure, and sits next to the original box, so that accounts for any confusion. The inference is easy to make that it's a production unit (given the enclosure, box, and lack of "clone" mention).
That happens when people "violate" copyrights and use a picture without referring to the source where it comes from:
https://www.stompboxes.co.uk/forum/viewt ... uzz#p26742

If you read this thread, I think it should be clear that it is a clone-pcb built by me. (BTW, the hole-distance on my circuit board is different to the original, I only have 1/10" hole-distance boards available).

analogguru
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Post by MoreCowbell »

analogguru wrote:
MoreCowbell wrote:
analogguru wrote:
MoreCowbell wrote:The plot thickens. The pedal sounds good with both a "82R" and a "820R" ...either works just fine - just changes the "perceived" output level on the volume knob.

I agree that it's a 82R in the Jennings you pictured AG (and certainly a 820R in the original photo)
the close-up picture showing the 820 ohm is NOT from an original unit, it was cloned by me (with a wrong value first).
more about that can be found in the link above.
MoreCowbell wrote: Thanks for the pics soniciv and AG . I wish we could dig up more board photos of the actual Colorsound units.
For what ? I think, everything should be clear enough now.

analogguru

Ah, OK - I was under the impression that the board was from a production unit, NOT a clone built by you. It wasn't mentioned in the original post that it was a "clone", is housed in an original enclosure, and sits next to the original box, so that accounts for any confusion. The inference is easy to make that it's a production unit (given the enclosure, box, and lack of "clone" mention).
That happens when people violate copyrights and use a picture without referring to the source where it comes from:
https://www.stompboxes.co.uk/forum/viewt ... uzz#p26742

If you read this thread, I think it should be clear that it is a clone-pcb built by me. (BTW, the hole-distance on my circuit board is different to the original, I only have 1/10" hole-distance boards available).

analogguru
I can't help it that your original post leaves the impression that it is an original unit. Picturing it in the original enclosure, next to the original box leaves it "at best" amnbiguous, and in reality, makes people think it is original. Face it, if you saw someone picture a replacement PCB in an original enclosure, with the original box, and they didn't mention that the pcb was a "replacement" in that post, you'd have been all over them. I didn't bother to read the whole thread, as typically you don't post pictures of things you build and represent them as the original units, so I didn't see the need to "question" it. . I see where you later clarified that you built the pcb. No need to get all uptight - your original post wasn't "clear", that's all.

As far as me posting the picture, no need whatsoever to "refer to the photo source" as I simply quoted your original post in this thread . I didn't "repost" it from DAM. The "enlargement and altered pic" is debatable, but being that it is directly under the quoted post, it is easy to see where the original, unaltered photo came from.

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