Marshall - Supa Fuzz (196x) [gut shot picture thread]

Discussion regarding early stompbox technology: 1960-1975 Please keep discussion focused and contribute what info you have...
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greenskull
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Post by greenskull »

I was just messing around on my breadboard a few days ago to try and build another Tone Bender MkII for myself with a load of 2N404's I received recently. I tried 10uf's like in the Marshall Supa Fuzz (another Tone Bender variant) in place of the 4.7uf caps and was blown away!! I was really surprised a few cap changes would make such a monster fuzz. Thick singing fuzz and sustains for days... I think I have a new favorite. Just wanted to share my joy. :D

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Post by bajaman »

Thanks Greenskull - for the your observations regarding the cap values
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Post by briggs »

It was one of my first builds, I don't use it much now but I always remember it being one hell of a fuzz, big balls :wink:
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Meanderthal
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Post by Meanderthal »

Hmmm... I've never built a TB or varient... but those cap values imply it might let thru all the bottom end... we bass players get kinda funny 'bout that...

I'm surprised too. Seriously. Usually, anything beyond 3.3uf or so makes little difference... but there's a possibility that 10uf is letting thru ... ummm... subsonics(?) that are getting fuzzed.

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but I've actually had to lower the cap values on BMPs to .1uf to tighten up the excessive mud, actually making it more suitable for bass(and really sweet on guitar)- the 'less is more' thing. I've seen them modded with higher than stock(1uf) caps, but they just get muddy. BUT, that's a BMP, very different than a TB... it's a diode clipper, not a torturer of germanium.

I have about 200 or so of those 2N404a(yanked off a neolithic computer pcb), and, yeah, they're great in a FF, so I'm sure they're great for the TB(which I always thought of as a sorta FF varient anyway).

Once again though, I get back to the reason I never built one... pos ground. I'm very reluctant to commit my dwindling stash of OC140(npn) because lately they just... don't exist anymore...
I have however gotten my hands on some other npn germs(weird Soviet ufos, TI 2N13something , a few misc obscure Japaneesers, etc), so once I get back to actually building stuff I may just give it a shot.

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Post by greenskull »

Breadboard it up and let us know what you think. Definitely need to fool around with different hfe's to get the sound you like also. I tried recommended Fuzz Face gains for Q2 and Q3 positions and didn't like 'em. Not a bad thing at all since now I don't have to dip into my Fuzz Face pairs I was saving for later.
I have a hundred GT311B NPN Russian jobs but couldn't do anything with them...... really wish I could find a few of those OC140's or even 2N388A's to play around with!!! Funny you mentioned the Big Muff: I'm going to try my hand at the Triangle knob version using the .1uf ceramic caps and 2N5133's I hope to get soon. Keep on fuzzin'.

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Post by Meanderthal »

Yep, the GT311N(supposedly 'high gain' version) are the Russian ones I have. I noticed it was hard to get good sounding pairs in a FF, but they're in there... oh, and the extra leg just goes to ground for shielding(in case that was a head scratcher).

As far as where to get NPN germs, I guess you've already tried ebay(the Russian ones...), but they do turn up now and then. That's where all mine(even the OC140s) came from...

Yer gonna love that triangle, and especially with those 2n5133! I've been told all the 'good ones' were used up long ago, but the NOS (I think futurelec, but smallbear might have them too)ones do have more grit and snarl to them than 2N5088(I've used them for the Axis fuzz, BMP, Hog's foot, Whisker biscuit, a few others, and there is a difference in all, even the Hog's foot), so those 'good ones' must have been magnificent!

Have fun!

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Post by modman »

1967 Marshall Supa Fuzz close up gut shots and pics

What schematic did you guys follow for the Supa Fuzz? this one?
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII/su ... ematic.gif

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Post by greenskull »

modman wrote:1967 Marshall Supa Fuzz close up gut shots and pics

What schematic did you guys follow for the Supa Fuzz? this one?
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII/su ... ematic.gif

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I basically I built it up as a Tonebender MKII, but used a 10uf input cap and a 10uf cap around the fuzz control instead of 4.7uf. Also I used a 100k "bias" knob in place of the 47k resistor on the second transistor's collector. I also like .1uf on the output and 1.2k or 1.5k in place of the 470 ohm resistor. I didn't experiment with changing the 100k to ground to 10k going to T1's base though. If using higher gain transistors, I recommend using a 2k pot for the fuzz control.
I used a few toggle switches to change the those values back and forth.... I really like it!!!

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Post by holyoli »

As for the burns buzzaround, which was fripp's main fuzz at the begining of his carrer, it seems that the marshall supa fuzz was one of the 2 fuzz boxes used by Steve Hackett at the time of Foxtrot and Nursery crime.
So with extra light strings, an old hiwatt and his fingers, you should be able to get the same sound :D

PS : moustache is not necessary

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Post by alteredsounds »

Some nice guts here. Had one of these some years back that I traded for some other Sola bits. Madness price on this imho.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORIGINAL-1960s-MA ... 240%3A1318

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Post by wildschwein »

Nice pics for sure; but I think I could save around $1200 by building mine own. As you say that price is nuts.
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Post by noelgrassy »

I'm building my own in this neat-oh casting I bought off Ebay. I've got 10 of the 75's to sort through for leakage but they don't arrive until next week. I've got some of that dark brown tagboard from an old Hammond. I need to fab that piece of bent metal that is secured under the pots to mount my circuit board to. Oh yeah, I need to score some set screw Marshall knobs to pull the esthetic together.
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Post by Torchy »

https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t11 ... fuzz11.jpg


I'm probably wrong but that pcb doesnt look '60's to me - its fibreglass and looks too 'new' / 'modern'. Whoever Marshall outsourced the fab too was ahead of their time. All the 60's pcbs Ive seen in fx were the dark brown srbp. Remember this is a UK fx, and stuff was built as cheaply as possible. Still not worth $1,075 IMHO.

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Post by alteredsounds »

Torchy wrote:https://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t11 ... fuzz11.jpg


I'm probably wrong but that pcb doesnt look '60's to me - its fibreglass and looks too 'new' / 'modern'. Whoever Marshall outsourced the fab too was ahead of their time. All the 60's pcbs Ive seen in fx were the dark brown srbp. Remember this is a UK fx, and stuff was built as cheaply as possible. Still not worth $1,075 IMHO.
Thought the same, I've had and still have dozens of Sola made boards and dont remember one quite like that :scratch:

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Post by analogguru »

I'm probably wrong but that pcb doesnt look '60's to me - its fibreglass and looks too 'new' / 'modern'.
It´s not a fake, maybe not 60´s but 70´s. I have seen that sort of pcb for the superfuzz several times and I call it the version III.

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Post by sinner »

Bump after 3 years ;)

Does anybody knows the electrolytic caps rating in Supa-Fuzz? I'm going to build exact replica of this very soon, and I'm starting parts sourcing...

I'm sure Electric Warrior, or Phibs knows exactly, but I'm asking in open debate in case if others will fallow me up :)

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Post by phibes »

Oh yes the SupaFuzz. After staring at too many photos for too many hours I came to many conclusions. You can't really go off what Fuzz Central has for this one. Here's how I see this one and I'm sure I'm missing some. I should probably just draw each schematic up eventually before I lose the ideas on my head.

* First wave came as a MK1 variant (schematic at the D*A*M forum)
* Next wave was just a SolaSound MKII, same values. Only difference was a 100 ohm limiting resistor on the fuzz pot. No 10uF caps yet. Take your favorite MKII, add a limiting resistor you got Supa Fuzz. Hell add a switch and you can go back and forth.
* Next wave were the ones I think Marshall started building so these are what I consider the actual SupaFuzz. Big Mustard caps. Still a MKII circuit except the 5uF's were swapped for 10uF and the .01uF to ground on the input was dropped. Limiting resistor also got dropped. The first were on stripboard then PCB. Resistor values seemed to stay spot on with these and transistors seemed to always stay at OC75. I've seen a few shots of a 100K resistor soldered under the board from Q2's collector to base on later ones.
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Post by Solidhex »

I think people expect a big difference using the 10uf's in place of the 5uf's but its actually on the subtle side. Its just a little juicier. I think its good to use the 10k on the base of Q1 also. If the circuit is set up right there should be so much gain to spare that the 10k reigns it in a little making a more useful range on the attack knob.

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Post by Electric Warrior »

phibes wrote: * Next wave was just a SolaSound MKII, same values. Only difference was a 100 ohm limiting resistor on the fuzz pot. No 10uF caps yet. Take your favorite MKII, add a limiting resistor you got Supa Fuzz. Hell add a switch and you can go back and forth.
The limiting resistor was not exclusive to the Supa Fuzz and not all of the Sola Sound made Supas have it. Most Sola Sound MKIIs have it... It's just an "early" MKII type thing.
phibes wrote: * Next wave were the ones I think Marshall started building so these are what I consider the actual SupaFuzz. Big Mustard caps. Still a MKII circuit except the 5uF's were swapped for 10uF and the .01uF to ground on the input was dropped. Limiting resistor also got dropped. The first were on stripboard then PCB. Resistor values seemed to stay spot on with these and transistors seemed to always stay at OC75. I've seen a few shots of a 100K resistor soldered under the board from Q2's collector to base on later ones.
Only the 0.1µF is a Mustard cap. The other one is a ceramic. And the cap from input to ground was being left away again.
sinner wrote:Bump after 3 years ;)

Does anybody knows the electrolytic caps rating in Supa-Fuzz? I'm going to build exact replica of this very soon, and I'm starting parts sourcing...

I'm sure Electric Warrior, or Phibs knows exactly, but I'm asking in open debate in case if others will fallow me up :)
The second version? I've seen several types. Hunts (12V), Lemco (12V), Philips (don't know what voltage rating), some grey 15V caps...
Solidhex wrote:I think people expect a big difference using the 10uf's in place of the 5uf's but its actually on the subtle side. Its just a little juicier. I think its good to use the 10k on the base of Q1 also. If the circuit is set up right there should be so much gain to spare that the 10k reigns it in a little making a more useful range on the attack knob.
And the lack of cap from input to ground will give it back some high end.
10k sure works well and is correct for any OC75/Impex MKII or Supa circuit.

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Post by sinner »

Thanks guys for the input... I've changed my mind to be anal with this build, I'll use what I have already. Tracking accurate parts cost a lot of time, and since I didn't build anything this year yet it's time to move my ass ;)

But it's always nice to know more

I've scored Supa-Fuzz enclosure of ebay as well as the PCB, so I'm going to build the later version with mustard caps all the way, I have a nice supply of BC Components electrolytic caps, and Takman Carbon Films so I'll use those as well. Maybe I'll build another one on stripboard. I've seen one layout somewhere here

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