klon buffer its good??

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 11 Mar 2014, 04:13

hi, i want a buffer in my pedalboard(in fact two), but, i was wondering if the buffer of the klon its good or its there any other thats its easy to buils like the klon and also very very good???

electrosonic · Post by **electrosonic** » 11 Mar 2014, 06:24

Nothing particularly special about the "klon buffer" - except that people seem to think it's magic.

Look at the amz buffer page

http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm

The 2nd to last circuit is basically the klon buffer except the biasing is arranged for a single supply.

Andrew.

alexradium · Post by **alexradium** » 11 Mar 2014, 06:52

Its a really BASIC average text book buffer,nothing special.

rocklander · Post by **rocklander** » 11 Mar 2014, 07:55

black toast buffer is pretty clean

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 11 Mar 2014, 18:44

im looking for a simple and easy to build buffer, but also a very good one, and i have heard about the klon, its there a good good buffer??

rocklander · Post by **rocklander** » 11 Mar 2014, 19:33

copachino wrote:im looking for a simple and easy to build buffer, but also a very good one, and i have heard about the klon, its there a good good buffer??

rocklander wrote:black toast buffer is pretty clean

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2752&p=174536#p174536

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 11 Mar 2014, 21:13

If you use an appropriate op amp, the "Klon buffer" is in fact a very good one. A TL071 provides extremely high input impedance and extremely low output impedance, when used as a buffer contributes nothing noise wise, and can be had on for pennies on eBay. It's simple enough to point to point build and it does the job well. It's nothing remarkable, the TL07x datasheet actually provides an example implementation of the an op amp as a unity gain buffer and people have been using them as such for about as long as they've been available. But it is a really good way to buffer a signal.

Adding a gain control is also easy. If you're going to do so, I would almost suggest that you should go to the extra effort of building a charge pump to run it at 18V, though.

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 11 Mar 2014, 22:56

i have many tl072, but im not sure if i want a gain knob, i dont even want a 3pdt switch, i will be using a buffer in the input signal of the chain and also another one in the output side of the chain, but i want to know well if this buffer do a good kog, the klon i mean, the charge pump.. ummm i dont really like the idea of charge pumps, as far as simple this klone buffer its really simple and easy to assamble, but will it be a clean buffer??, will it do the job i want??

electrosonic · Post by **electrosonic** » 12 Mar 2014, 04:01

MoonWatcher · Post by **MoonWatcher** » 12 Mar 2014, 04:50

I'm trying to understand how someone would differentiate between a good buffer and an exceptional one.

It's a buffer. It's a unity gain amplifier that is intended to be high impedance at its input, and low impedance at its output. Whatever components it takes to make any buffer that meets those criteria means you've got a good buffer, right? Am I missing something?

Why do some people repeatedly talk about noise and other potentially extreme characteristics for a buffer? How much noise can be generated at unity gain beyond what the buffer is simply passing on at unity gain?

How did we end up getting stuck talking about some of these "housekeeping" parts of circuits? What's next - a premium bias supply for opamp-based circuits? The proper value for an actual premium value pulldown resistor?

Maybe it would be better to do a reset. A buffer is basically the same for almost any application of audio gear. So go back to square one, and re-read the definition for a buffer. Don't add anything that isn't part of the actual definition. Maybe after doing that, it will only be necessary to build a good buffer and be done with it.

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 14 Mar 2014, 13:11

for a good buffer i mean a clear transparent one, there are many ones that colour the treble a bit, thats something i dont want to.

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 14 Mar 2014, 15:16

copachino wrote:for a good buffer i mean a clear transparent one, there are many ones that colour the treble a bit, thats something i dont want to.

Use a TL072 as a unity gain buffer with no gain control. It'll be transparent. The input impedance is measured in tera ohms, and the output impedance is under 100 ohms IIRC. You won't have any treble roll off. It'll be dead simple.

imnotgay · Post by **imnotgay** » 14 Mar 2014, 17:07

astrobass wrote:
copachino wrote:for a good buffer i mean a clear transparent one, there are many ones that colour the treble a bit, thats something i dont want to.
Use a TL072 as a unity gain buffer with no gain control. It'll be transparent. The input impedance is measured in tera ohms, and the output impedance is under 100 ohms IIRC. You won't have any treble roll off. It'll be dead simple.

increased brightness is something common with buffer..

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 14 Mar 2014, 17:10

its normal, but only when you got a too dark response in your guitar, i want somehting that sounds almost exactly as if i play my guitar with a 1ft cable, not brighter or darker.

imnotgay · Post by **imnotgay** » 14 Mar 2014, 18:17

then any buffer circuit will be just fine..opamp buffer easier to build

Post by **azrael** » 14 Mar 2014, 20:19

imnotgay wrote:
astrobass wrote:
copachino wrote:for a good buffer i mean a clear transparent one, there are many ones that colour the treble a bit, thats something i dont want to.
Use a TL072 as a unity gain buffer with no gain control. It'll be transparent. The input impedance is measured in tera ohms, and the output impedance is under 100 ohms IIRC. You won't have any treble roll off. It'll be dead simple.
increased brightness is something common with buffer..

This is due to different reasons, not circuit design. A buffer will drive cables better, thus there is less treble lost due to the low pass filter created by the cable's capacitance.

MoonWatcher · Post by **MoonWatcher** » 15 Mar 2014, 21:51

copachino wrote:for a good buffer i mean a clear transparent one, there are many ones that colour the treble a bit, thats something i dont want to.

I don't think the buffer is making things brighter as much as it's removing any existing loading that's reducing the treble.

The buffer is being blamed for something that its very design is intended to eliminate.

It sounds like you want the opposite of a "clear" buffer - you want things colored in a way that sounds neutral as we've probably come to expect it - e.g. some treble attenuation. In that case, you could probably play with the buffer's input a little bit to mimic the Miller effect, cable capacitance, and so on. You could drop the impedance at the input to what might seem like an unorthodox amount, but will give you an acceptable "neutral" tone. If 1 meg doesn't pull off enough treble, substitute a 1 meg trimpot and drop it down until you find a pleasing treble response with.

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 15 Mar 2014, 22:03

i have just build it with no hope, i only get noise coming out of it, i have tested and meassured everything, but i cant get it work, im using a tl072 and also a JRC4580 for op amp, in both cases only get noise, thisis the schematic i have made

astrobass · Post by **astrobass** » 16 Mar 2014, 00:23

Are you using a socket? Is it possible that you overheated the chip soldering?

copachino · Post by **copachino** » 16 Mar 2014, 01:05

yes im using a socket, i have also bradborad it and still only noise... voltages are ok... my rig its ok, im playing with other pedals i have made and sound good...ummm i will have to build a signal generator