Orman's Minibooster: jfet mu-amp NS app note 32; Feb 1970

Post by **modman** » 12 Jul 2007, 01:08

Jack Orman writes on his website that he got the idea for the minibooster from a late 1970's National Semiconductor handbook. The sample circuit seems to be much older: it's on page 1 of the National Semiconductor application note #32, Feb 1970 as JFET AC Coupled Integrator. Maybe this is hardly news, but Jack is so secretive about it. Or is that just me again?

Then again there a whole lot more in that document than that circuit.

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 12 Jul 2007, 01:34

You forgot to mention that the Mini-boost can also be found in the Fulltone Fat-Boost ....

analogguru

Post by **modman** » 12 Jul 2007, 01:55

I have that Fatboost around somewhere, was going to post that in the Boutique Folder under Fulltone Fatboost Trying to get my post count up, soldier!

There are no layout for the Fatboost that I know of, every smar person just builds the FAT BOOSTERED instead and never looks back. Really.

Maybe there should be some more Fulltone material, pretty soon boutiquer are going to feel they are not popular

ZJ

jg · Post by jg » 19 Jul 2007, 16:13

http://www.sugardas.lt/%7Eigoramps/article29/05.jpg

Used as a guitar booster some 18 years ago......

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 19 Jul 2007, 18:32

Really - that long ago?

I like that website. My understanding of the Russian language is very poor, but I can read it well enough to have an idea what I'm looking at. Many interesting circuits there.

Thanks JG!

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 19 Jul 2007, 22:11

Those Russians have been into FETS for a loooooooooooong time

bajaman

markm · Post by **markm** » 31 Jul 2007, 16:08

modman wrote:Jack Orman writes on his website that he got the idea for the minibooster from a late 1970's National Semiconductor handbook. The sample circuit seems to be much older: it's on page 1 of the National Semiconductor application note #32, Feb 1970 as JFET AC Coupled Integrator. Maybe this is hardly news, but Jack is so secretive about it. Or is that just me again?

Then again there a whole lot more in that document than that circuit.

Curiously though, The Russian circuit seems to resemble the Mini Booster alot. Why is this claimed as "Jack's" circuit when it is just out of an app. book with changed values?
I'm not knocking Jack but, everytime something turns up in an effect that resembles the Mini-Booster, it is said to have been "stolen" from Jack.
Is it really Jack's in the first place though?

briggs · Post by **briggs** » 31 Jul 2007, 17:28

That's exactly what I always think...

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 31 Jul 2007, 19:17

markm wrote:
modman wrote:Jack Orman writes on his website that he got the idea for the minibooster from a late 1970's National Semiconductor handbook. The sample circuit seems to be much older: it's on page 1 of the National Semiconductor application note #32, Feb 1970 as JFET AC Coupled Integrator. Maybe this is hardly news, but Jack is so secretive about it. Or is that just me again?

Then again there a whole lot more in that document than that circuit.
Curiously though, The Russian circuit seems to resemble the Mini Booster alot. Why is this claimed as "Jack's" circuit when it is just out of an app. book with changed values?
I'm not knocking Jack but, everytime something turns up in an effect that resembles the Mini-Booster, it is said to have been "stolen" from Jack.
Is it really Jack's in the first place though?

I posted that [Russian Book Scan] months ago up at the other forum. Really the only response I got was the National Semi book reference from a few years earlier (I guess proving that it was not borrowed from the Russian's?). So either way, why did he and others jump all over Fulltone all these years? (I'm not defending Fulltone but if it was a published circuit from NS what right do they have jumping on anyone?). I guess the argument is the adaptation for use with guitar? Of coarse you would come close to the values he had if you implemented the circuit for guitar. (I'm also not defending Fulltone as I'm sure he just borrowed the whole thing from Jack and did not bother to do his own investigation).

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 31 Jul 2007, 19:26

Not to mention that its use in tube circuits predates NS's adaptation [for use with JFET's] by a couple decades.

Post by **modman** » 31 Jul 2007, 20:18

jg wrote:http://www.sugardas.lt/%7Eigoramps/article29/05.jpg
Used as a guitar booster some 18 years ago......

It's even 1983 -- 24 years ago acoording to the page -- or am I too curious now?

http://www.sugardas.lt/%7Eigoramps/article29/02.jpg

the russian version also seems to be endebted to the US 1970 app note. Or is there a pre 1970 russian fet app note?

Interesting genealogy!

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 31 Jul 2007, 20:38

It's 1983. But for sure that circuit has been around way before that (tube amps).

markm · Post by **markm** » 31 Jul 2007, 20:43

Interestingly enough though, there are loads of Booster circuits like the mini booster/NS circuit, that contain different values than the actual "Orman" values, that function perfectly well for Guitar.
To my knowledge, the actual circuit was built by Jack for a Keyboard player friend of his.
Doubtless, Fulltone and most, if not, ALL the Boutique boosters and OD's that contain the mini booster got the idea from Jack, but, the bottom line is that it still is an NS app circuit with values changed.
To claim it as "his" is kind of pushing the envelope into "grey areas" IMO.
Then anyone whom uses this type of circuit is accused of ripping-off Jack Orman rather than just following NS's app notes.
That is quite a convenient situation, isn't it?!
Afterall, Fuller paid him money for National Semi's circuit!!

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 31 Jul 2007, 21:00

As Vanessa rightly states, the idea of supplying an active current source load or cascode type of circuitry was not new in 1970 - tube amps were using the same basic topology (there's a nice word

) way back in the late 50s - possibly sooner.
bajaman

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 31 Jul 2007, 21:20

bajaman wrote:As Vanessa rightly states, the idea of supplying an active current source load or cascode type of circuitry was not new in 1970 - tube amps were using the same basic topology (there's a nice word ) way back in the late 50s - possibly sooner.
bajaman

I think that circuit may even go back to the 30's (don't quote me

)

I'll add that there is many circuits that NS and others (Mullard, etc.) adapted to solid state components over from tube. When you think about it (or when I do anyway) you're like "why would they just give that circuit away"? A. It was never their circuit to begin with and B. They want you to rethink your project to incorporate their version of the circuit, thus getting you to buy their components. If you were some big time manufacturer this would equate to millions in revenue for NS.

The whole issue must have been because Fulltone used the exact values for the better part of the circuit and Jack was not getting a dime (I don't know as I've never seen under the hood of a fat boost). Even still, if I built a circuit from an NS manual (basically copying the whole of it) and that happened to me [Fulltone], I might laugh that they got the idea from me, that's about it.

Post by **modman** » 31 Jul 2007, 22:59

Very good point, circuits you get for free with the transistor as a manual.

Fulltone didn't have to pay Jack at all, that's true. But there is a lot of that kind of money flying around. It's to buy (or in Fulltone's case: "try and buy back") the respect of the diy community (= aron's + ampage + ...)

That's what's happening at Tonefactor too. Paying money (but how much) where they don't have to. LIcensing?

zj

briggs · Post by **briggs** » 01 Aug 2007, 12:58

Paying money (but how much)

I'd love to know!

markm · Post by **markm** » 02 Aug 2007, 11:45

briggs wrote:
Paying money (but how much)
I'd love to know!

Well, my guess is that's it's enough to not have to eat Raman Noodles any longer!

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 02 Aug 2007, 12:19

I ate Ramen today...

markm · Post by **markm** » 03 Aug 2007, 01:00

soulsonic wrote:I ate Ramen today...

Did it make you feel "creative"?!

That must be an omen....there's a new design in your future,
Just over the horizon.....