Strat Tone Control Mod Ideas?

CHEEZOR · Post by **CHEEZOR** » 17 Jul 2011, 23:05

I have a strat that I have wired with on/off switches for each pickup and a master volume, master tone, and a master passive overdrive for the 3 knobs. I have had this setup for a while, but I have never been impressed with the passive overdrive. Any suggestions on what I should use that knob for instead? I have been searching all over the internet, but most places say to make it a "blend" pot for one of the pickups. I really dont need that cuz I can already use any pickup combination that I want.

Zipslack · Post by **Zipslack** » 18 Jul 2011, 01:30

The nice thing about a blend pot is that you can different amounts of signal from two different pickups. With the switches, you get all or nothing. With a blend pot, you could have the bridge pickup doing 80% of the work with 20% of the neck blended in to "fatten" it up a little, or vice-versa. I have a basic blend mod on a cheap Squier strat and I love playing around with the different sounds available by mixing different amounts of bridge and neck pickups, plus having the option of throwing in the middle pickup to the mix.

GuitarlCarl · Post by **GuitarlCarl** » 18 Jul 2011, 02:05

Wah pot, for that cocked wah sound...OR I agree that 3 switches, while sounding like a great idea... limits your choices. No series connections, no blends, maybe that's why your bored with what you got. I'm assuming you still have your old pickguard... try a five way TELE mod wiring with the neck and bridge pups. 1 Vol 1 tone, and a mid pup blender with your third knob.

atreidesheir · Post by **atreidesheir** » 18 Jul 2011, 02:27

+1 wah pot. magic.

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 24 Jul 2011, 17:39

Try this wiring : http://www.geocities.jp/dgb_studio/3svari_e.htm#16
It blends the standard strat tones into serial and half-out-of-phase tones, this is the most versatile mod i've seen to a strat. With just the stock components (and a couple optional caps).

nianri6 · Post by **nianri6** » 01 Sep 2011, 04:24

I've rewired a couple of strats, and put in my own passive overdrive on both. What exactly is making the overdrive? I used two red LEDs and both the owners and myself were happy with how it turned out. It got crunchy enough that the amp's distortion almost wasn't needed, and with the right tweaking it gave the guitar an acoustic-like tone without clipping.

CHEEZOR · Post by **CHEEZOR** » 03 Sep 2011, 00:17

nianri6 wrote:I've rewired a couple of strats, and put in my own passive overdrive on both. What exactly is making the overdrive? I used two red LEDs and both the owners and myself were happy with how it turned out. It got crunchy enough that the amp's distortion almost wasn't needed, and with the right tweaking it gave the guitar an acoustic-like tone without clipping.

I am using a pair of schottky diodes. I dont have the exact model number since I am away from home for work until at least the 16th. Maybe longer.

nianri6 · Post by **nianri6** » 03 Sep 2011, 03:01

CHEEZOR wrote:
I am using a pair of schottky diodes. I dont have the exact model number since I am away from home for work until at least the 16th. Maybe longer.

I've never been impressed with the overdrive Schottky's produce. Before you rewire the whole thing, I'd recommend trying LEDs. I've only used red, I'm not sure if the higher forward bias voltage in different colors will cause a different amount of clipping or not. I'm also going to eventually try 1n4001 diodes in a similar setup, although I'm not sure if that will work either. If 4001's will work, I'll probably use one of those and a red LED in my current guitar.

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:40

nianri6 wrote:I'd recommend trying LEDs. I've only used red, I'm not sure if the higher forward bias voltage in different colors will cause a different amount of clipping or not.

Indeed. You must have pretty strong pickups to get red LEDs to clip, as they have about 1.7V threshold. Those are in general used after an active gain stage. Other colors typically have higher Vt, up to about 5V for blue LEDs. Germanium and Schottky diodes have lower Vt, in the 0.3V range.

i would not expect 1N4001 to sound any different than 1N4148, both being silicon, except maybe for higher internal capacitance taming more highs.

I've used a combination of schottky and silicon diodes for asymmetric clipping, with adequately pleasing results.
More details here: https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2100

nianri6 · Post by **nianri6** » 03 Sep 2011, 14:04

JiM wrote: Indeed. You must have pretty strong pickups to get red LEDs to clip, as they have about 1.7V threshold. Those are in general used after an active gain stage. Other colors typically have higher Vt, up to about 5V for blue LEDs. Germanium and Schottky diodes have lower Vt, in the 0.3V range.

i would not expect 1N4001 to sound any different than 1N4148, both being silicon, except maybe for higher internal capacitance taming more highs.

I was actually surprised that the LED's did clip cause clipping, it's much more noticeable with single coils than humbuckers though. They do cause clipping in the guitars I have them installed in (I will see if I can make some sound clips this weekend), however they do not emit any light. I believe I saw a small flash when I was running all three pickups in series, but that was once and it wasn't very bright.

I'm working on an amp right now that had 1n4148's in the clipping stage, and I switched to 1n4001, and it's not even the same amp anymore. It is way too harsh, so you are probably right about the internal capacitance, however there are 5 total clipping stages and I've only changed one of them. Also, I used the exact same setup as you mentioned in your post, where you are able to keep the tone tone control as well. However I removed the capacitor and put a wire straight to the jack so essentially it's like blending clean with overdriven. I never thought about using audacity to see the clipping, I'll definitely try that when I make those sound clips.

FiveseveN · Post by **FiveseveN** » 03 Sep 2011, 23:04

however they do not emit any light

There could be/are two reasons for this:
1. the pickups' resistance behaves like a series resistance in series with the voltage (signal) "feeding" the LEDs. It should come to no surprise that the three pickups in series (same voltage* but about 1/3 the resistance) would have a greater chance of "lighting" the LEDs.
2. the human eye-brain system only picks up signals longer than about 1/25 seconds. If only brief peaks get clipped, i.e. cross the forward voltage threshold, the LED might light up but the eye might not pick it up.

*: same voltage for a white noise stimulus as far as I can tell right now (after a couple of tall ones). In the case of an actual guitar there are phase and amplitude issues that one must take into account, but who do not refute my basic claim.

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 04 Sep 2011, 09:18

FiveseveN wrote:three pickups in series (same voltage* but about 1/3 the resistance)

That would be parallel.
Resistance and voltage add up in series, with the same current. This is why series wiring sounds loud, but a bit muffled (higher impedance, hence more sensitive to cable capacitance).

FiveseveN · Post by **FiveseveN** » 04 Sep 2011, 10:42

Yes, parallel, exactly. Told ya, too many beers

nianri6 · Post by **nianri6** » 05 Sep 2011, 05:13

I wired them in series specifically to add their output, not divide it. But I understand what you're saying, I had to hit the strings really hard to get them to flash so it took a lot to reach the bias voltage. This is an entirely passive setup in both guitars by the way, passive pickups with all passive circuitry. I can't believe that single coils in a knock off strat could reach the bias voltage under normal conditions, so could it be that the LED's I used (all 4 that were used came from the same order) are clipping the signal when they shouldn't be?

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 05 Sep 2011, 07:50

nianri6 wrote:I wired them in series specifically to add their output, not divide it. But I understand what you're saying, I had to hit the strings really hard to get them to flash so it took a lot to reach the bias voltage. This is an entirely passive setup in both guitars by the way, passive pickups with all passive circuitry. I can't believe that single coils in a knock off strat could reach the bias voltage under normal conditions, so could it be that the LED's I used (all 4 that were used came from the same order) are clipping the signal when they shouldn't be?

If you're asking if the LEDs can clip at a lower signal level than the forward voltage, then the answer is no.

nianri6 · Post by **nianri6** » 05 Sep 2011, 15:52

I must have used some weird ass LEDs.

HydrozeenElectronics · Post by **HydrozeenElectronics** » 06 Sep 2011, 00:19

atreidesheir wrote:+1 wah pot. magic.

Wouldn't you need to add more than just a wah pot to get anything other than just a standard tone control out of a wah pot?

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 06 Sep 2011, 21:32

HydrozeenElectronics wrote:
atreidesheir wrote:+1 wah pot. magic.
Wouldn't you need to add more than just a wah pot to get anything other than just a standard tone control out of a wah pot?

I guess they are talking about putting a full-fledged wah circuit in the guitar, with battery and all, controlled by what used to be a tone pot.

There are also some passive wah-like circuits, mostly RLC resonnant passive filters.
For example : http://www.jpbourgeois.org/guitar/microsbis.htm

HydrozeenElectronics · Post by **HydrozeenElectronics** » 07 Sep 2011, 03:01

JiM wrote:
HydrozeenElectronics wrote:
atreidesheir wrote:+1 wah pot. magic.
Wouldn't you need to add more than just a wah pot to get anything other than just a standard tone control out of a wah pot?
I guess they are talking about putting a full-fledged wah circuit in the guitar, with battery and all, controlled by what used to be a tone pot.

There are also some passive wah-like circuits, mostly RLC resonnant passive filters.
For example : http://www.jpbourgeois.org/guitar/microsbis.htm

That is a great site! thanks