Menatone - None More Black  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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Sikor
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Post by Sikor »

I just got this pedal and didn't find any info on this site, so, here are the guts :)

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Image

I can't really analyze circuits, so please, do not ask me for it.
All I can contribute is photos :oops:
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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Thanks for this first step ;)

They chewed that PCB to size?
What's needed is a photo of the bottom side of the PCB as well as the values on the capacitors, transistors and potmeters.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

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salocin
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Post by salocin »

Those weird turret kind of things again :scratch:

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Post by okgb »

Wow , you could call that custom , or amatuer
or allot of work , does look efficient
and i guess it's in the design not layout
4 fet overdrive ?

How's sound ? did you pay much ?
Last edited by okgb on 20 Jul 2010, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Hides-His-Eyes
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Post by Hides-His-Eyes »

is it perf or matrix board they've put the weird turrets in? What are they?
Testing, testing, won too fwee

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squrl
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Post by squrl »

probably need a bottom pic as well - see the transistor legs poking down through the perf.

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Post by jimbob_400 »

Features:
~ completely analog circuit
~ Point to Point construction
~ True Bypass switching
~ DC power jack
- center, + ring
~ silver plated wire
~ only carbon resistors and film caps in the signal path

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Post by culturejam »

Hides-His-Eyes wrote:is it perf or matrix board they've put the weird turrets in? What are they?
They are eyelets. You can easily add eyelets to any material that is thin and can be drilled. :D

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Post by MKB »

The eyelet construction is kind-of their trademark. It allows reliable and predictable point-to-point construction in a small space. But I don't know why they use the perfboard, other than it's a signature as well. They must use a hole punch to make the eyelet holes, as drilling large holes in perfboard like that is a mess. I'm sure you could make somewhat of a case that the perfboard reduces the leakage between eyelets and improves the tone (as compared to regular FR4 sheets), but some folks might giggle a bit at that. I sure would.

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Post by culturejam »

MKB wrote:I'm sure you could make somewhat of a case that the perfboard reduces the leakage between eyelets and improves the tone (as compared to regular FR4 sheets), but some folks might giggle a bit at that. I sure would.
What does "leakage between eyelets" mean?

I've built several circuits on eyelets in FR4, and I've yet to have any issues with, uh, leakage. :scratch:

If you can prove to me that FR4 has a sound, then we can talk about the tone of perfboard. :mrgreen:

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Post by MKB »

culturejam wrote:
MKB wrote:I'm sure you could make somewhat of a case that the perfboard reduces the leakage between eyelets and improves the tone (as compared to regular FR4 sheets), but some folks might giggle a bit at that. I sure would.
What does "leakage between eyelets" mean?

I've built several circuits on eyelets in FR4, and I've yet to have any issues with, uh, leakage. :scratch:

If you can prove to me that FR4 has a sound, then we can talk about the tone of perfboard. :mrgreen:
Any type of insulator has a resistance, in most cases it is so high it can be considered inconsequential. If your impedances on the board are high enough, these small resistances can have an effect. Depending on the surrounding circuitry, these resistances can allow tiny currents to flow, which is called leakage, or leakage currents. I've worked on PCB's in fiber optic equipment where the leakage currents on FR4 boards are too high and can cause problems, so we had to run the sensitive nodes to teflon insulated posts placed into the PCB. In my current job we have to carefully clean our PCB's as we measure currents in the picoampere range, and just leaving flux on a PCB can cause false readings.

In the Marshall Haze 40 amp, there is an issue with the early ones where the caps have too much leakage current, causing voltage offsets in the circuitry that causes popping when the channels are switched. I replaced the caps in mine, but the popping got worse. Turned out I did not remove the solder flux from the board, and the flux caused a leakage path between the high voltage and an input node. Cleaning the board fixed the problem.

Another way to reduce leakage is to create a hole or slot in a PCB. The holes in the perfboard could interrupt or redirect leakage currents between the high impedance nodes on the board. But I very strongly suspect that's not why he uses perfboard.

I did say the leakage argument is a stretch..... I don't know why he uses the stuff, maybe it's easier to work with when using a centering type of hand punch?

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Post by culturejam »

Oh.

:hmmm:

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Post by Greg »

MKB wrote:[Another way to reduce leakage is to create a hole or slot in a PCB. The holes in the perfboard could interrupt or redirect leakage currents between the high impedance nodes on the board. But I very strongly suspect that's not why he uses perfboard.

I did say the leakage argument is a stretch..... I don't know why he uses the stuff, maybe it's easier to work with when using a centering type of hand punch?
Considering there's more connections that don't have a hole between them than do.. I suspect you're right that that's not the reason he uses perfboard. :wink:
Also, the holes or slots you mentioned are meant to increase the distance between connections (considerably) in order to reduce leakage, but if you notice the size of the eyelets vs the holes, they don't do that here... there's always a direct path, because the joints are much bigger than the holes.

I guess it's a good case for true point to point with no board like the original Rangemasters though.
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Post by quaternotetriplet »

bookmarked this one.

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Post by Sikor »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:Thanks for this first step ;)

They chewed that PCB to size?
What's needed is a photo of the bottom side of the PCB as well as the values on the capacitors, transistors and potmeters.
The board is loose, but I couldn't flip. I'll try again. I do not know, maybe it's attached somehow :scratch:
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Post by Greg »

Sikor wrote:
Dirk_Hendrik wrote:Thanks for this first step ;)

They chewed that PCB to size?
What's needed is a photo of the bottom side of the PCB as well as the values on the capacitors, transistors and potmeters.
The board is loose, but I couldn't flip. I'll try again. I do not know, maybe it's attached somehow :scratch:
Maybe stuck to the pots with double sided tape or something ?
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Post by nickthemen »

Try to detach the potmeters.

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Post by Greg »

Note the lead on this resistor looks like it isn't soldered properly.. looks like it was cold.
You might want to touch that up too... maybe it's just the angle of the pic.
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Post by okgb »

The " leakage " becomes critical for very high impedance things
like microphone capsules where just breathing on the board can
change the noise , you need insulators and a can of deflux .

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Post by culturejam »

Based on the tone I hear in the demo...
http://www.menatone.com/menatone_2009/N ... Black.html

...I'm assuming it's a cascaded JFET design?

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