Analogman - Peppermint Fuzz

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 01 Feb 2008, 00:37

there is also the V-stack BHM pedal, but i don't know what it sounds like anymore

i tried one and was less than impressed

bajaman

Deric · Post by **Deric** » 01 Feb 2008, 02:52

I had a VPD1 for a while. I never traced it but did open it up and it looked very much like Moeller's AC30 sim. Mostly SMT but very well built.

I liked it alot. Wish I still had it.

Edit:
By the way, was told at the time by the local TC rep that it was Moeller's AC30 sim.

KB · Post by KB » 01 Feb 2008, 09:50

Flood wrote:

stephan moeller's excellent AC30 sim project. he did distribute the schematic freely, but gave out the values only after getting people to close a non-disclosure agreement with him, before selling the circuit to TC electronics. from the samples i've heard, this thing kicks a$$. i'm still looking for the values with no luck

I went as far as etching and drilling the boards that were available on Geofex before I found out that the missing parts values were no longer available from Stephen....

RG has taken the link down now, after someone else asked about the missing values on the Stompbox forum.

I thought I would be able to find the needed information on the web, but no luck. Maybe one day I will get to finish it but since I have been looking for two years, I think that this one will take some time. Interesting to see it finally released as a pedal.

Kevin

holyoli · Post by **holyoli** » 01 Feb 2008, 11:56

I would be very interested to get these values too...

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 12 Feb 2008, 07:15

modman wrote:Again, we are talking about business ethics, though business is hardly about ethics...

People taking designs off the web to sell them for lots of money doesn't get me out of my lazy chair... but what does did annoy me enough to start this forum was the that they went about pulling amateur diy web sites and threatening online hobbyist communities just to keep the charm of their business going.

It's not illegal to lie in commercial discourse, it's almost mandatory. But to go and spread blatant misinformation in non-commercial diy communities, what is that?

I can stand them making $500 over a box, no problem, but can they stand us having a critical look at it? Or even just a peep?

Truce!

I don't totally disagree with you in theory.

Unlike a lot of other more mature industries, we builders don't have some organization representing us as a whole. Most of the time, they personality on the net, the customer support guy, the designer, and whoever else are the same person. It certainly makes for good drama...

I certainly remember some crazy stuff that went on in the industry i used to work in that makes anything that has happened in this industry look pretty minor. Of course I was dealing with multinational companies... Designers, CEO's and Janitors, were insulated by 2 layers of customer service, and 3 layers of management... Probably a good idea to protect the stock holders i guess.

trevize · Post by **trevize** » 12 Feb 2008, 09:21

flood wrote: as far as $200 price for $20 in parts is concerned - i really don't get the hate.

+1

I think that most of the people who complain about 200$ boutique pedals are students who don't have money to buy them or, if they work, they're employee. If look at this pedal prices from a different point of view and really know how much does the working hours cost in europe you will not be surprosed at all.

I work on my own. Considering all the costs and all the taxes, my working hours are at least 60-70€ per hour worth, and most of it it's just to cover the expenses and taxes.

From this point of view 200$ for a GOOD fuzz face pedal is fair, since it's not built in the far east. 3 working hours+parts+rent+billings(electricity....)=200$ it's not that bad in my opinion.

FXFXFX · Post by **FXFXFX** » 12 Feb 2008, 12:16

trevize wrote: +1

I think that most of the people who complain about 200$ boutique pedals are students who don't have money to buy them or, if they work, they're employee. If look at this pedal prices from a different point of view and really know how much does the working hours cost in europe you will not be surprosed at all.

I work on my own. Considering all the costs and all the taxes, my working hours are at least 60-70€ per hour worth, and most of it it's just to cover the expenses and taxes.

From this point of view 200$ for a GOOD fuzz face pedal is fair, since it's not built in the far east. 3 working hours+parts+rent+billings(electricity....)=200$ it's not that bad in my opinion.

exactly - as long as you at least try to make something different from others. I worked for years in automotive business, in a company that has a margin of average 70-80% for a wide range of parts. Thats totally normal in business if you're following a high-pricing-strategy and have the customers who pay for it. That would be 30€ for parts + 120€ (3hours) working = 750€ for a boutique pedal.

Ed G. · Post by **Ed G.** » 12 Feb 2008, 23:15

Keep in mind, I'm not discussing this pedalmaker or that one...but as a graduate of business school, I know that if you don't have a sufficient markup on your product, you'll be out of business or working for free.

And your costs aren't limited to the cost of materials. You've got labor (even if it's yourself -- do you work for free?) utilities, other costs like insurance, etc... you can nickel and dime yourself to death (euro?)

Look at supply and demand...how many pedals do you want to build before you break even? Do you want to kill yourself building hundreds of pedals for little profit or build a few for real money? Say what you want about Landgraff, he's a shrewd businessman. By pricing his product up high, you create the PERCEPTION that it's better, he limits his demand and doesn't have a 2-year waiting list, and he's making real money on his pedals.

Lots of people know the Landgraff is a tube screamer and THEY DON"T CARE. I'd never pay $400 for a TS, but there are people out there who will.

I'm not saying it's ethical, although I don't see what's not ethical about it. If you don't want to pay $400 for a tube screamer, don't.

Now, if I could stand to look at myself in the mirror, I'd put out a tube screamer, maybe with some differently-colored parts, and sell it for $600. That means it's $200 better than the Landgraff! I BET I could hype that bad boy enough to make it sell (don't anyone get any ideas!) and the hype would snowball. People on TGP would be falling over themselves to be the first ones to get it (remember early adopters, like the ones who paid $200 more for the Apple phone?) and they'd be swearing how much better it is than anything else there. After a while, you don't have to hype it, the forumites hype it for you.

KHELSTROM · Post by **KHELSTROM** » 14 Mar 2008, 14:32

In the gut shots of the sunface I see that there is the "sun dial" pot to control the bias and then I see another trim pot on the board. Does anyone have the value of these and know where they go in the circuit or better yet have a schematic?

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 14 Mar 2008, 14:53

Here is the answer:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2084

analogguru

trevize · Post by **trevize** » 02 Mar 2009, 13:20

gutshot if the red and white version of the peppermint fuzz.

Couldn't remove the pcb to check the values of the potentiometers...

devastator · Post by **devastator** » 20 Nov 2009, 17:46

exept the eternal debat about mystic boutique stompboxes, any other information about that circuit ?

WhiteKeyHole · Post by **WhiteKeyHole** » 20 Nov 2009, 20:15

Such as?

Trim-pot on Q1 collector (try 25K or 50K), "you can fine tune it by turning fuzz and vol knobs up all the way, and buzz knob down. Set the trimpot pointing down. Then without playing guitar, turn trimpot CW to find the spot where the ambient noise from the guitar comes through and is not gated."

Use 1K in place of 470R. "Sun Dial" bias configuration for Q2, tweak values for best range.

Looks like hFe and leakage (of that particular unit) are noted in that last picture: 100(?)/60 and 141(?)/100. Point is, use fairly high gain transistors.

devastator · Post by **devastator** » 20 Nov 2009, 21:12

What could be the "buzz knob" ?

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 20 Nov 2009, 22:03

Buzz knob is the same as the Sun Dial on the Sun Face. (A pot substituting the resistor going to Q2's collector) I'm sure same rules apply.

"Sun Dial - For the sundial, it's the 8.2K resistor but we add a limiting resistor which depends on the actual biasing of the transistors you use.
We use a 5K (usually) or 10K pot and make it about 5V when the pot is at 12:00 by selecting the proper limiting resistor."

blanik · Post by **blanik** » 19 Dec 2009, 05:12

sorry to bump this old tread but after seing demos of the Peppermint i found that it's more the sound i'm looking for than a regular FF, i know it's only values tweaking but all the pictures have disappeared from the tread, where can i see those PCB shots and pot values? or a schem if it does exist

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 21 Dec 2009, 20:14

No need for a schematic. Looks like the 33k resistor is dropped for a trimmer (50k i'd assume). Change the 470r for a 1k. Utilize the sundial for the 8k2 as described above. Input cap is changed to 1uf. 22uf on lug 2 to ground on the FUZZ pot. I've never seen photos with the pot values. The standards will work fine. I wouldn't be too surprised if the volume pot is a 100k audio. Maybe breadboard it up first. A 1k reverse audio pot for FUZZ is always a more bitchin' choice.

blanik · Post by **blanik** » 21 Dec 2009, 20:44

phibes wrote:No need for a schematic. Looks like the 33k resistor is dropped for a trimmer (50k i'd assume). Change the 470r for a 1k. Utilize the sundial for the 8k2 as described above. Input cap is changed to 1uf. 22uf on lug 2 to ground on the FUZZ pot. I've never seen photos with the pot values. The standards will work fine. I wouldn't be too surprised if the volume pot is a 100k audio. Maybe breadboard it up first. A 1k reverse audio pot for FUZZ is always a more bitchin' choice.

for what i can see on the only pic left in this tread, the input cap is 0.01uF (103 clearly visible)

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 21 Dec 2009, 21:03

blanik wrote:for what i can see on the only pic left in this tread, the input cap is 0.01uF (103 clearly visible)

That would be the cap before the volume pot following the 1K resistor. I didn't list it because it's the same value as a standard fuzz face.

devastator · Post by **devastator** » 21 Dec 2009, 21:11

I built a similar sounding pedal, not exactly the same values I think, I kept the 33K resistor of Q1's collector, the 3rd control is the collector's resitor of Q2 transformed in a 4K7 + 5KL pot. And I put a kind of pre-gain wired like a big muff gain pot. instead of the regular fuzz control. Works good ! The additional pot adds a kind of buzz, and extra buzz at the extrem position, really fat and dirty. I had also increase the output cap to 68n (I don't really like the sound with 10n), the input cap stayed to 2u2 (to keep full bass frequencies) . If that can help...

Analogman - Peppermint Fuzz [traced]