BJF - Baby Blue Overdrive [ goop-alarm ] BJFE

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modman
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Post by modman »

Please, ebay sellers everywhere, if you take a gut shot, remove the protective foam please! :mrgreen:
Ebay auction closed at $450 but stated:
This pedal is rare and discontinued, only 500 were made and this one is #420.
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Anybody has better gut shots?
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Post by analogguru »

modman wrote:Please, ebay sellers everywhere, if you take a gut shot, remove the protective foam please! :mrgreen:
Hey man, thats not foam, that is goop....
As you can read here
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=409&start=245
the pedal expert Bob Burt disclosed, that this goop is the secret weapon against noise and hum...

Why you want this goop removed ?
To get disillusioned when you probably see another TS-derivate ?

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Post by modman »

I was mailing with a local guy selling a Red Distortion for 180EUR -- he told me it contained foam to avoid shorts, but no goop.
Looking at this - I really think it's foam. Unless you got some better more detailed BJFE guts... haven't found any yet. Apart from this one.

This might well be TS, but wouldn't be suprised the Baby Blue OD is the same as the Sky Blue OD.
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Post by analogguru »

modman wrote:I was mailing with a local guy selling a Red Distortion for 180EUR -- he told me it contained foam to avoid shorts, but no goop.
Looking at this - I really think it's foam. Unless you got some better more detailed BJFE guts... haven't found any yet. Apart from this one.
Have a look here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=669&st=0&sk=t&sd=a& ... d&start=30
a link to guts and where Bjorn himself stated that it is goop...
You know my opinion about goop: goop = shit
So a gooped pedal is a shitty pedal....

EUR 180,-- for a piece of shit ?

Anyway.... goop only proves, that in reality there is nothing special inside and it is not worth the money desired for it.

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Post by Donnerbox »

the foam you see is wrapped completely around the gooped circuit...

the foam is attached to the goop while its hardening ( this is also when the magic faery dust made of powdered mojo chicken bones is added :secret: ) ... so it might appear to someone as a single piece or even 'just foam' :scratch:

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Post by seniorLoco »

that goop makes it unserviceable if broken .... a dumb move by the builder.
Recently i had to turn away a dead Bjf red and the owner vowed never to buy a gooped pedal ever.... :applause:
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Post by Alex C »

Why foam AND goop? If it's gooped, what can short to the case bottom? Is the board just "floating" around in there?

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Post by soulsonic »

Alex C wrote:Why foam AND goop? If it's gooped, what can short to the case bottom? Is the board just "floating" around in there?
Who knows if he even uses a board. The way he talks about the goop, it almost seems to suggest that he doesn't. I might be totally wrong about that, but it did seem to at least suggest that it's wired in a way that most people would consider to be very sloppy or ugly, and the goop keeps him from having to make it pretty-looking. I can see his point, but it is a shame that it keeps it from being repairable by anyone other than the original builder (and that's only because he can just build up guts to replace the old).
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Post by Donnerbox »

yeah your right.. too bad people cant just trust each other not to copy other peoples work :blackeye

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Post by soulsonic »

Donnerbox wrote:yeah your right.. too bad people cant just trust each other not to copy other peoples work :blackeye
Of course, and since his stuff is popular and over-prized, then of course that puts him in the danger of another wannabe booteeker copying it and saying, "here's my Baby Blue clone and it's $100 less than his". But of course the secrecy brings up another problem: I could say that I successfully traced a Baby Blue, I'm not sharing the schematic, and I'm selling my own clone of it for $300. Sound familiar? And of course, no one could prove me wrong because no one knows what the real circuit is except Bjorn, and then he'd have to expose himself just for the sake of proving me wrong. I think the whole boutique overdrive business is a really ugly scene.
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Post by Donnerbox »

well actually most buyers are more interested in the sound it makes , doesnt really matter what the circuit is ( I know ~ heresy ) -

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Post by soulsonic »

Donnerbox wrote:well actually most buyers are more interested in the sound it makes , doesnt really matter what the circuit is ( I know ~ heresy ) -
I agree that the sound is the only thing that's really important, but what I'm talking about is scamming people. If it sounds the same, who cares, but if seller claims it's the same circuit as something else and it's not; that's not just dishonest, it's also illegal. That's the point I'm making here. What's more unscrupulous; copying someone else's work, or making false statements that you've copied someone else's work for the sake of selling something desirable?
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Post by analogguru »

seniorLoco wrote:that goop makes it unserviceable if broken ....
Why you didn´t put in a GGG or BYOC Distortion+ or Rat-clone-pcb ? Can´t sound worse than the "original"...
.... a dumb move by the builder.
Not if he is only interested in cashing the "big money".
Servicefriendly and serviceability never has been part of that.
Recently i had to turn away a dead Bjf red and the owner vowed never to buy a gooped pedal ever.... :applause:
A very wise decision:

NEVER BUY A GOOPED PEDAL !

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Post by Donnerbox »

soulsonic wrote:
Donnerbox wrote:well actually most buyers are more interested in the sound it makes , doesnt really matter what the circuit is ( I know ~ heresy ) -
I agree that the sound is the only thing that's really important, but what I'm talking about is scamming people. If it sounds the same, who cares, but if seller claims it's the same circuit as something else and it's not; that's not just dishonest, it's also illegal. That's the point I'm making here. What's more unscrupulous; copying someone else's work, or making false statements that you've copied someone else's work for the sake of selling something desirable?
Yes but most consumers wouldnt know what they were looking at any way... Im suprised there havent been more 'fakes' ...

and again back to 'sound or circuit' the consumer buys a sound maker not a recipe, the advertized recipe migt be part of the allure - but all that counts for the consumer is the end product ~ sound

gooping may be inconvienient and annoying to people who want to study he circuit bu not to t he consumer, and thats who the product is made for.....

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Post by alteredsounds »

Imagine if Fender 'gooped' strat wiring or Marshall 'gooped' all their amps, I'd be suprised if either were still available to buy, any tech would stay away from gear that cant be easily fixed on the road or quickly replaced. Most tech's with bigger bands consider anything 'gooped' as amateur crap. Really the only 'gooping' accepted is Pete Cornish gear.

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Post by MKB »

soulsonic wrote:
Alex C wrote:Why foam AND goop? If it's gooped, what can short to the case bottom? Is the board just "floating" around in there?
Who knows if he even uses a board. The way he talks about the goop, it almost seems to suggest that he doesn't. I might be totally wrong about that, but it did seem to at least suggest that it's wired in a way that most people would consider to be very sloppy or ugly, and the goop keeps him from having to make it pretty-looking. I can see his point, but it is a shame that it keeps it from being repairable by anyone other than the original builder (and that's only because he can just build up guts to replace the old).
FWIW, there are some lab grade instruments built this way. I read in a magazine somewhere that some of the first discrete component op amps made by Philbrick had to be sky-wired as the PCB's caused leakage problems, and then potted in a box with epoxy to ruggedize the thing. This assembly proved to be very rugged and reliable, and many are still in service today. If the circuit is correctly designed and all the thermal issues are worked out, there should be no problem making something this way. Repairability is certainly out of the question, and not having that option is a decision the manufacturer has to make. A circuit that costs say $99 is small beans to most industries, even if it was a repairable assembly it would make more sense to replace it as the repair costs would be higher than the new assembly. My work has nearly everything potted, and the items cost $200-$1000 or so, I've not heard of a single complaint about repairability.

The question is whether the customer wants to buy something that can't be repaired and must be replaced if there is a problem. Maybe the ticket would be for the gooped pedal manufacturer to advertise the pedal as "Circuit assemblies permanently ruggedized to critical industrial standards for maximum reliability and pedal life" or something like that, then if the potential customer wants a repairable pedal, he could move on to something else.

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Post by soulsonic »

Professional circuit potting and booteek gooping are two completely different things and you obviously know that. There's no point in ever potting a stupid guitar pedal except to hide it.
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Post by MKB »

soulsonic wrote:Professional circuit potting and booteek gooping are two completely different things and you obviously know that. There's no point in ever potting a stupid guitar pedal except to hide it.
I see your point, but don't totally agree. There were some pics on this board awhile back of some booteek pedal that was skywired, it was begging for some way to make it reliable. Either a PCB or potting would do that. The point is there are some instances where a builder might be correct to pot the PCB, if he has to skywire as he can't get the tone with a PCB, or if his circuit is prone to acting strange in wet environments.

However, if I get your point that most builders pot to keep the reverse engineers out or to hide the origins of their magic circuit or to keep the mystique going, I agree completely. There aren't many PCB circuits out there that need potting unless you want ultra-reliability. In that case you should pot the whole thing, not just a few components. You can always leave the parts that wear (pots, jacks, switches) out of the potting, they could then be replaced if necessary.

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Post by Donnerbox »

right there is also a difference as mentioned in what can be repaired....
The things that any good tech could repair are open - most malfunctions are in the moving parts in/outs pots, stomps etc....
But the part that is gooped is the least likely to malfunction, and its also the part that is the most 'individual'...
or another way to say 'the part that is gooped can not be repaired by anyone else' if it requires specific tweeking - if the tech its taken to doesnt reallly understand whats going on - the effect may work again but not have the same sound as when created and would thereffore be not whats 'on the label'


Or this gooped part I dont want 'just fixed' by anyone else....

its also a way of keeping the branded sound consistant :thumbsup

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Post by analogguru »

However, if I get your point that most builders pot to keep the reverse engineers out or to hide the origins of their magic circuit or to keep the mystique going, I agree completely. There aren't many PCB circuits out there that need potting unless you want ultra-reliability. In that case you should pot the whole thing, not just a few components.
And the industry is using clear epoxy coating if it is really necessary, so you can see everything..... you want to see examples ?
right there is also a difference as mentioned in what can be repaired....
The things that any good tech could repair are open....
You forget that a good tech can make your overprized bootweak pedal sound the way it should (or as you want) if it is not gooped.

As alteredsounds mentioned:
...any tech would stay away from gear that cant be easily fixed on the road or quickly replaced.

....or tweaked....

for this reason:
NEVER BUY A GOOPED PEDAL !!!

A gooped pedal never can be better than what your local (skilled) tech can´t also get out of your tubescreamers....

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