Blackmarket FX - Overdrive ( CJOD Clone ) [ goop-alarm ]
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- Posts: 11
- Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 09:35
Looking forward to those future projects & FWIW...It sounds identical to my old CJOD. Jamie, i think this myth is Busted
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analogguru
- Old Solderhand
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....and as I predicted:Stressfest wrote:I ordered one of these before the sham that is the CJOD was revealed. It arrived this morning and i cracked her open expecting a gigantic glob of smeg coating the board...instead i found one detatched wire off the footswitch and nakedness. It's like he just doesn't care anymore...lol
Yet Another (Landgraff) Tubescreamer Clone.
Now you know why this forum exists:
1.) Help bootweakers to increase their profit by saving a lot of money on goop.
2.) Give customers (and their repair technicians) a much more aesthetical view when they open the unit (e.g. to change batteries).
3.) Helping the postmen not to carry too much weight.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
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- Posts: 11
- Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 09:35
So, for the circuit/scematic illiterate amonst us...namely me, what are the differences?whammy wrote:very good.
there are a few slight changes to the layout on yours compared to the one i de-gooped.
fwiw - i thought it was a pretty average sounding box.
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soulsonic
- Old Solderhand
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Yeah, those are 5mm. I had accidentally written 3mm on the schematic I drew.JimiB wrote:so did he use 5mm led's?
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gght
- Solder Soldier
Just wanted to post a BIG Thank You to ALL the guys, especially whammy and AG, who did the work on the CJOD. I finished modding an SD-1 to match the CJOD specs tonight, as suggested over in the pimp my cheap pedal area. I think I might have $45 total in the project, and it really sounds nice. You really amaze me!!!
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guiltyspark
- Solder Soldier
I have to say that cracks me up too. I don't claim to have the best ear, but the the second I plugged in a 'burst Eternity I knew it was TS based. It would appear that some of the"Golden Ears" should invest in ear training instead of every new Booteek pedal that comes out. The whole CJOD fiasco is an excellent demonstration of the power of suggestion (and hype).whammy wrote: I'm still shaking my head when I think of the descriptions of the CJOD from all the 'sniffers who claim they've got "Golden Ears".
Guiltyspark
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Blues Lyne
- Breadboard Brother
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- Posts: 81
- Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 06:37
- Location: Carlsbad, CA
I modded an old soundtank TS I had to the CJOD specs, with the exception of the 1M gain pot. It sounds nice and more dynamic than stock. But, it is still unmistakably a Tube Screamer.guiltyspark wrote:I have to say that cracks me up too. I don't claim to have the best ear, but the the second I plugged in a 'burst Eternity I knew it was TS based. It would appear that some of the"Golden Ears" should invest in ear training instead of every new Booteek pedal that comes out. The whole CJOD fiasco is an excellent demonstration of the power of suggestion (and hype).whammy wrote: I'm still shaking my head when I think of the descriptions of the CJOD from all the 'sniffers who claim they've got "Golden Ears".
Guiltyspark
Hi guys, I've been out for a while, now I'm back to see this nice effort on clarifying people's minds out there. Good job, y'all! 
Just wanted to drop my $0.02 on one of those subjects, please let me know if I get too much off topic here. For those of us who mess up with soldering irons and those colorful carbon and film delights, two leds are just two leds and one changed IC is just that too. But please remember that most guitar players really don't care about leds or chips, neither have the basic ability to make those changes. I'm not telling you I'm in love with the 'cork sniffers', even less I'm justifying more than one grand for a slightly modded TS clone. I'm just saying that things have different meanings and values for each one of us, in this case heavily affected by our electronics knowledge.
For a guitar player that listens to dozens of overdrives that claim to be 'the best', sometimes a chip or a couple of leds prove to be his long awaited tone answer. For those who can mod a TS to CJOD specifications, the value of that mod is just about a couple of ten dollars and that's it! For those of us who can't, it may well be worth some hundreds, if they have that kind of money available and they feel that small mod ends their tone quest (at least for the week).
For those who like TSs (I don't), this mod may well make the best OD around and the best option available (not for $1500, obviously).
I still agree with most of you about the whole story, just disagree about every people buying a CJOD being a complete earless idiot (BTW, I don't own one, nor know anyone that does). Maybe people lacking electronics knowledge can't believe a modded TS clone can sound that much apart (in their opinion) from a regular TS. Doesn't that sound reasonable to you guys? I guess we're been just as ignorant and intransigent about this as they are about CJOD guts and mystique.
Just wanted to drop my $0.02 on one of those subjects, please let me know if I get too much off topic here. For those of us who mess up with soldering irons and those colorful carbon and film delights, two leds are just two leds and one changed IC is just that too. But please remember that most guitar players really don't care about leds or chips, neither have the basic ability to make those changes. I'm not telling you I'm in love with the 'cork sniffers', even less I'm justifying more than one grand for a slightly modded TS clone. I'm just saying that things have different meanings and values for each one of us, in this case heavily affected by our electronics knowledge.
For a guitar player that listens to dozens of overdrives that claim to be 'the best', sometimes a chip or a couple of leds prove to be his long awaited tone answer. For those who can mod a TS to CJOD specifications, the value of that mod is just about a couple of ten dollars and that's it! For those of us who can't, it may well be worth some hundreds, if they have that kind of money available and they feel that small mod ends their tone quest (at least for the week).
For those who like TSs (I don't), this mod may well make the best OD around and the best option available (not for $1500, obviously).
I still agree with most of you about the whole story, just disagree about every people buying a CJOD being a complete earless idiot (BTW, I don't own one, nor know anyone that does). Maybe people lacking electronics knowledge can't believe a modded TS clone can sound that much apart (in their opinion) from a regular TS. Doesn't that sound reasonable to you guys? I guess we're been just as ignorant and intransigent about this as they are about CJOD guts and mystique.
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Greg
- Old Solderhand
My 2 cents worth axiss....
The changes to the CJOD are not major compared to a lot of other TS clones.
I've probably heard more than 20 TS clones in the past couple of years, and I could tell straight away what they were based on. The TS circuit has a distinctive sound that's hard to mistake IMO.
The comments that have been made here, in general, refer to people who claim to have a lot of experience and great ears... and yet they've been prepared to make comments like "there's NO WAY this is a TS".... and they've ridiculed anyone who said that they thought it sounded like a TS. This doesn't just apply to the CJOD either... the same thing happened with the Landgraff, the Eternity, and other TS based effects.
Some of these guys would absolutely shout down anyone who dared suggest these pedals were TS like.
Now if you're going to be that opinionated, and make a hard-line call on what something is or isn't, you really should have the ears and the knowledge to know what you're talking about. If you don't, you really should stick to saying "it doesn't sound like a TS TO ME" or "in my opinion" ... don't you think ?
The changes to the CJOD are not major compared to a lot of other TS clones.
I've probably heard more than 20 TS clones in the past couple of years, and I could tell straight away what they were based on. The TS circuit has a distinctive sound that's hard to mistake IMO.
The comments that have been made here, in general, refer to people who claim to have a lot of experience and great ears... and yet they've been prepared to make comments like "there's NO WAY this is a TS".... and they've ridiculed anyone who said that they thought it sounded like a TS. This doesn't just apply to the CJOD either... the same thing happened with the Landgraff, the Eternity, and other TS based effects.
Some of these guys would absolutely shout down anyone who dared suggest these pedals were TS like.
Now if you're going to be that opinionated, and make a hard-line call on what something is or isn't, you really should have the ears and the knowledge to know what you're talking about. If you don't, you really should stick to saying "it doesn't sound like a TS TO ME" or "in my opinion" ... don't you think ?
culturejam wrote: We are equal opportunity exposure artists.
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briggs
- Tube Twister
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Yup, I believe in the "look before you leap" method too. It can be tricky to stick to sometimes though! Hopefully with this CJOD/Blackmarket info coming out the whole "sniffing" scene will have had it's bottom smacked and will be a little more carefull in the future when making blind statements (yeah, who am I kidding?)!
I am Klon.
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Greg
- Old Solderhand
haha... wishful thinking probably ...briggs wrote:Yup, I believe in the "look before you leap" method too. It can be tricky to stick to sometimes though! Hopefully with this CJOD/Blackmarket info coming out the whole "sniffing" scene will have had it's bottom smacked and will be a little more carefull in the future when making blind statements (yeah, who am I kidding?)!
culturejam wrote: We are equal opportunity exposure artists.
You're right, I agree. They just shouldn't back their opinions up so passionately if they don't know what they're saying. I'll just keep my point up for those who didn't do that, who just listened to the thing and thought it was the thing. Those who don't claim to have golden ears and just thought the CJOD was the nicest sounding OD around should have our respect and maybe even our compassion, because they were fooled somehow (isn't that what we hate about booteekers?). And it's pretty reasonable that they don't believe someone they don't know or respect, telling them they beloved pedal is cr@p or something like that, because they truly believe in the makers (how sad is that?) and keep getting fooled over and over again (that reminds me that old MC5 song, very appropriate here ).
Greg, about telling straight away they are TS based, I really don't like anything TS based and can also tell straight away when I here them. But I find understandable that some can't do that and can be fooled that way, considering they haven't messed with those circuits as we did AND do not claim to have those highly sought after "golden ears".
I would gladly take your last statement as mine, that's what I meant up here.
Cheers!
).Greg, about telling straight away they are TS based, I really don't like anything TS based and can also tell straight away when I here them. But I find understandable that some can't do that and can be fooled that way, considering they haven't messed with those circuits as we did AND do not claim to have those highly sought after "golden ears".
I would gladly take your last statement as mine, that's what I meant up here.
Cheers!
Sorry if this is a repost (havn't read EVERY post in the thread, but most of them).
I'm about to build one soon, I'm just a little confused by all the brands and types of caps out there. I've built a few pedals but I would like to dig a little deeper and learn more about how much difference there could be between different caps. In previous builds I've got som help from my dad, but as said - I would like to learn some more myself.
Talked to my dad about the caps and resistors, and he claimed that it wasn't that big a deal if I was to use carboncomp. resistors or metal film, or what caps I was going to use. From what I've read in different places I think he might be partually right, but that it could be a big difference. It's just a matter of what you are capable of hearing, right?
So, what caps should you recommend? Should I use the caps (if I can get a hold of them) listed on the landgraff schem or should I try something else? Speaking of that, I'm not familiar with the terms of "buffer cap", "filter caps" and so on, could someone please waste a minute or two and explain, or maybe point them out in the schem? Would be very helpful!
Or, If someone would be so kind that he made parts list for me, that would be out of this world.
Note: I'm thinking of ordering from banzaieffects.org (because I'm outside US)
Thanks/Ben, SWE
I'm about to build one soon, I'm just a little confused by all the brands and types of caps out there. I've built a few pedals but I would like to dig a little deeper and learn more about how much difference there could be between different caps. In previous builds I've got som help from my dad, but as said - I would like to learn some more myself.
Talked to my dad about the caps and resistors, and he claimed that it wasn't that big a deal if I was to use carboncomp. resistors or metal film, or what caps I was going to use. From what I've read in different places I think he might be partually right, but that it could be a big difference. It's just a matter of what you are capable of hearing, right?
So, what caps should you recommend? Should I use the caps (if I can get a hold of them) listed on the landgraff schem or should I try something else? Speaking of that, I'm not familiar with the terms of "buffer cap", "filter caps" and so on, could someone please waste a minute or two and explain, or maybe point them out in the schem? Would be very helpful!
Or, If someone would be so kind that he made parts list for me, that would be out of this world.
Note: I'm thinking of ordering from banzaieffects.org (because I'm outside US)
Thanks/Ben, SWE
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soulsonic
- Old Solderhand
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Welcome, Ben!
I will try to answer your questions; yes, there's many different component types you could use, and it really isn't that big of a deal what you use generally, though in some cases there are only certain types which are appropriate. Yes, sometimes you can hear a difference depending on what type of resistor or cap you use, but it usually isn't a difference that affects whether the thing works correctly and in most cases it becomes a matter of personal taste. You can build one with all the standard inexpensive components and I'm sure it will sound fine. The smaller valued caps used for coupling and filtering within the circuit are standard "MKT" type polyester film caps. The Landgraff original (and I believe the original CJOD as well) use ones by AVX, but you could use Wima or Epcos or even unbranded generic caps and get similar performance. The larger value caps are almost always Electrolytic caps - these are the filter caps (used to filter and decouple the power supply) and the "Buffer" cap (this is the 10uF output coupling cap... not sure why he called it a buffer cap... it's a misleading name...). In the original Landgraff, the electrolytics are inexpensive standard ones by Xicon, with the exception of the output cap which is a high-grade Sprague 150D Tantalum cap. You can use any standard electrolytics here, and even for the output cap, without trouble. Some people prefer the more expensive Tantalums for things like coupling because of their lower ESR values and different response to the signal. The very small picofarad value caps are usually Silver Mica types in Landgraff pedals. You can use either Silver Mica or Ceramic for these, the ceramic ones are much less expensive and likely won't sound much different considering how they are used in the circuit.
I hope this helps!
I will try to answer your questions; yes, there's many different component types you could use, and it really isn't that big of a deal what you use generally, though in some cases there are only certain types which are appropriate. Yes, sometimes you can hear a difference depending on what type of resistor or cap you use, but it usually isn't a difference that affects whether the thing works correctly and in most cases it becomes a matter of personal taste. You can build one with all the standard inexpensive components and I'm sure it will sound fine. The smaller valued caps used for coupling and filtering within the circuit are standard "MKT" type polyester film caps. The Landgraff original (and I believe the original CJOD as well) use ones by AVX, but you could use Wima or Epcos or even unbranded generic caps and get similar performance. The larger value caps are almost always Electrolytic caps - these are the filter caps (used to filter and decouple the power supply) and the "Buffer" cap (this is the 10uF output coupling cap... not sure why he called it a buffer cap... it's a misleading name...). In the original Landgraff, the electrolytics are inexpensive standard ones by Xicon, with the exception of the output cap which is a high-grade Sprague 150D Tantalum cap. You can use any standard electrolytics here, and even for the output cap, without trouble. Some people prefer the more expensive Tantalums for things like coupling because of their lower ESR values and different response to the signal. The very small picofarad value caps are usually Silver Mica types in Landgraff pedals. You can use either Silver Mica or Ceramic for these, the ceramic ones are much less expensive and likely won't sound much different considering how they are used in the circuit.
I hope this helps!
"Analog electronics in music is dead. Analog effects pedal design is a dead art." - Fran
Wow, thanks!
Fast answer and you've straightened out many of my questionmarks! I'll read it trough a little bit more carefully tomorrow when my head is clearer (it's 00:40 here). I'll ask if I still don't get it (but I think I will)
Oh, just one thing. You mentioned the electrolytics - the only ones I see is the output-cap and one in the "power-supply", are there more of them that isn't pointed out?
And the english terms is a bit of a problem for me (I've only studied very basic electronics in swedish) so I'm not really sure what you mean by "coupling-cap". Is there some easy way to explain, or maybe a link? Sorry, I feel stupid, hehe.
Thanks again! /Ben
Fast answer and you've straightened out many of my questionmarks! I'll read it trough a little bit more carefully tomorrow when my head is clearer (it's 00:40 here). I'll ask if I still don't get it (but I think I will)
Oh, just one thing. You mentioned the electrolytics - the only ones I see is the output-cap and one in the "power-supply", are there more of them that isn't pointed out?
And the english terms is a bit of a problem for me (I've only studied very basic electronics in swedish) so I'm not really sure what you mean by "coupling-cap". Is there some easy way to explain, or maybe a link? Sorry, I feel stupid, hehe.
Thanks again! /Ben
Forgot one thing. What is your opinion on the carboncopm. resistors vs. the metal film ones? Does it make that big a difference? From what I've heard the carboncomp's is quite a bit more noisy, aren't they?
And yet another question - Is the "NP" marking of some of the larger caps just to underline that they aren't supposed to be electrolytics?
Cheers /Ben
And yet another question - Is the "NP" marking of some of the larger caps just to underline that they aren't supposed to be electrolytics?
Cheers /Ben