Zvex - Machine
- modman
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Zvex Machine schematic
unverified, I'm sorry. Note the SHO as a first stage, as also noted in the text.
unverified, I'm sorry. Note the SHO as a first stage, as also noted in the text.
Last edited by modman on 25 Jul 2007, 01:02, edited 1 time in total.
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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He sure does get a lot of mileage from that SHO circuit - and why not it does sound good ( the SHO, not Machine!!)
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
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Have a look at this:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515 ... h_Line.jpg
This is "The Tone God´s" FX-X monthly submission for June 2007
I am sure, this is not the reason why zvex schematics are not allowed there.
analogguru
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515 ... h_Line.jpg
This is "The Tone God´s" FX-X monthly submission for June 2007
I am sure, this is not the reason why zvex schematics are not allowed there.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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Hi AG
I played around with CD4069 mos buffers a couple of decades ago.
As I recall they had 6 individual complementary mosfet pairs in them.
In the analog circuits I was using them in I found them a bit too hisssy for my liking, but a couple of local musos loved them - they obviously were not as fussy as me
By the Way ( to quote the chilis),this was a long time before the Way HUge Red Llama type pedals started to appear.
It may be worth rediscovering them as distortion clipping stages - I actually built a complete preamp including built in Rat type distortion channel and reverb drive mix and recovery sections with three of these chips - I think they cost 50c each too
As for Zackis Machine or Andrew's finishing line, I don't think I like that type of crossover notch distortion sound - give me a Tonebender Pro MkII anyday
Cheers
Steve
I played around with CD4069 mos buffers a couple of decades ago.
As I recall they had 6 individual complementary mosfet pairs in them.
In the analog circuits I was using them in I found them a bit too hisssy for my liking, but a couple of local musos loved them - they obviously were not as fussy as me
By the Way ( to quote the chilis),this was a long time before the Way HUge Red Llama type pedals started to appear.
It may be worth rediscovering them as distortion clipping stages - I actually built a complete preamp including built in Rat type distortion channel and reverb drive mix and recovery sections with three of these chips - I think they cost 50c each too
As for Zackis Machine or Andrew's finishing line, I don't think I like that type of crossover notch distortion sound - give me a Tonebender Pro MkII anyday
Cheers
Steve
- Dan N
- Resistor Ronker
I'm not familiar with that 2 transistor PNP/NPN snippet in those circuits, except maybe in the output stage of cheap old transistor amps. Without ever really hearing a "machine", what tonal effect can we expect from such a design?
Edit- I see Andrew calls it a "non-selective frequency tripler".
Edit- I see Andrew calls it a "non-selective frequency tripler".
- bajaman
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Hi Dan N
Andrew's circuit is a little different to the machine - it has a way of adjusting the bias - but I think you can see where he got the idea from
Have a look at the internal schematic for the Cmos hex inverting buffer (CD4069) I mentioned earlier in this thread - if you download (google it) the datasheet from Philips, you will find some interesting info there
on how to use it as an amplifier, and although it is composed of cmos fet devices, I think you will see the similarity to the Machine snippet.
As to how the Machine sounds, I have not built one to test, but have heard it described as like a machette cutting through butter - not a pleasant sound at all
If the schematic is correct you will notice it exploits the non linearity of the transistors near the zero crossing point, due to a lack of bias on them - spitty fizzy sound, not reccomended for da blues
Cheers
Steve
Andrew's circuit is a little different to the machine - it has a way of adjusting the bias - but I think you can see where he got the idea from
Have a look at the internal schematic for the Cmos hex inverting buffer (CD4069) I mentioned earlier in this thread - if you download (google it) the datasheet from Philips, you will find some interesting info there
on how to use it as an amplifier, and although it is composed of cmos fet devices, I think you will see the similarity to the Machine snippet.
As to how the Machine sounds, I have not built one to test, but have heard it described as like a machette cutting through butter - not a pleasant sound at all
If the schematic is correct you will notice it exploits the non linearity of the transistors near the zero crossing point, due to a lack of bias on them - spitty fizzy sound, not reccomended for da blues
Cheers
Steve
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
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Zacki claims himself:
He describes the function:
Machine is..."a dual frequency tripler"...Whats that ?
"dual" is ok...but: "frequency tripler" ?
In reality does he mean: "frequency tripper" ?
This circuit may be able to produce signals with "double" frequency, "dual" could maybe produce "quad" frequencies (2x2 = 4), but "tripler" would mean three times (or "dual" 6-times) the original frequency....
Later on I will have a deeper lokk at the "tech" part.
analogguru
Zacki must know it...One thing to keep in mind, however, is that this pedal basically sounds horrible. It's primary purpose is to cut through. But like a wild man with a machete, it is not nice.
He describes the function:
Have a look at the Ludwig Phase-II and you will know that´s not true. Another examples are available.I designed this new distortion generator, Machine, with some different limitations. Like try playing chords through it. Hmmm. But put it in front of any string of fuzz pedals, and try to make it disappear. Machine is actually a dual frequency-tripler circuit that uses crossover distortion for the first time in any pedal, ever.
Machine is..."a dual frequency tripler"...Whats that ?
"dual" is ok...but: "frequency tripler" ?
In reality does he mean: "frequency tripper" ?
This circuit may be able to produce signals with "double" frequency, "dual" could maybe produce "quad" frequencies (2x2 = 4), but "tripler" would mean three times (or "dual" 6-times) the original frequency....
...if you send before your hard-earned money to Zacki....It generates the distortion of the wave in the sloped part of the cycle, instead of the peaks and valleys like all other distorters and fuzzes. In other words, it distorts when your guitar string is in the middle of vibrating, while it's swinging, not as it's turning around. That's the same place where your speaker cone is sort of coasting, between all the way in and all the way out. Where nothing is happening, this pedal happens. With Machine you can leave your favorite distorting pedals on and still add a new element of energetic grind.
Later on I will have a deeper lokk at the "tech" part.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- modman
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there's a youtube demo vid by the man himself. For what it's worth
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- analogguru
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There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
Ken Stone uses a similar setup (the PNP / NPN pairs) as a wavefolder in his synth modules.
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs52_folder.html
Zvex doesn't mention R. Lockhart Jr.
A bit unfair if he didn't come up with it himself (and I doubt he did, if he then refers to it as a frequency trippling crossover distortion or whatever).
Anyhow, Ken Stone mentions that you can mix a DC voltage (in his synth module) to sweepthe harmonics... interesting!
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs52_folder.html
Tom Escobedo's Tripple Fuzz .jpg says thanks to Ken Stone 'for the lead', I assume he means to that circuit (by R. Lockhart Jr.). Tom adapted it for guitar use.This circuit is based on "Nonselective Frequency Tripler Uses Transistor Saturation Characteristics" by R. Lockhart, Jr., in Electronics Design, Aug. 16, 1973.
Zvex doesn't mention R. Lockhart Jr.
A bit unfair if he didn't come up with it himself (and I doubt he did, if he then refers to it as a frequency trippling crossover distortion or whatever).
Anyhow, Ken Stone mentions that you can mix a DC voltage (in his synth module) to sweepthe harmonics... interesting!
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
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Hey funny, PT is "re-inventing" a derivat of the zvex-machine with mosfets:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=59383.0
analogguru
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=59383.0
I am not a schoolbook, but..... maybe this happens because the (high-impedance)-gates get a DC-voltage via Rfbno matching - just grabbed the first ones out of 2 bags...
automatic exactly 4,5V (4V5)/(4.5V) biasing!
and that`s what stumped me, too:
no datasheet or schoolbook description has been able to explain to me why this actually happens...
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- bajaman
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Yawn
Why bother with discrete devices - just grab a CD4049 or 4069 - you get six complementary pairs on one chip
parallel them for lower noise or higher current capability, or in series for unlimited sustain and crazy surf sound like the Peavey 5150
Check out these links for more info
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetmay.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjun.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjul.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetaug.pdf
Cheers
Steve
ps: should we tell pure....
Why bother with discrete devices - just grab a CD4049 or 4069 - you get six complementary pairs on one chip
parallel them for lower noise or higher current capability, or in series for unlimited sustain and crazy surf sound like the Peavey 5150
Check out these links for more info
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetmay.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjun.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjul.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetaug.pdf
Cheers
Steve
ps: should we tell pure....
- analogguru
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I would prefer a 4007.
analogguru
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- bajaman
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Ok - but you only get one pair and 4 singles - which reminds me - Fender used that chip in the early 80s for the distortion channel of their stage lead amplifier, or was it the harvard - hmmm - one of them - hissed like a snake
cheers
Steve
cheers
Steve