Zvex - Machine

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
Post Reply
User avatar
modman
a d m i n
Information
Posts: 4890
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 16:57
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 2131 times

Post by modman »

Zvex Machine schematic
unverified, I'm sorry. Note the SHO as a first stage, as also noted in the text.
Last edited by modman on 25 Jul 2007, 01:02, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bajaman
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4549
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 21:18
Location: New Brighton, Christchurch, NZ
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 2058 times

Post by bajaman »

He sure does get a lot of mileage from that SHO circuit :wink: - and why not :?: it does sound good ( the SHO, not Machine!!)
8)

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Have a look at this:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515 ... h_Line.jpg

This is "The Tone God´s" FX-X monthly submission for June 2007 :roll:

I am sure, this is not the reason why zvex schematics are not allowed there. :wink:

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
bajaman
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4549
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 21:18
Location: New Brighton, Christchurch, NZ
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 2058 times

Post by bajaman »

Hi AG
I played around with CD4069 mos buffers a couple of decades ago.
As I recall they had 6 individual complementary mosfet pairs in them.
In the analog circuits I was using them in I found them a bit too hisssy for my liking, but a couple of local musos loved them - they obviously were not as fussy as me :wink:
By the Way ( to quote the chilis),this was a long time before the Way HUge Red Llama type pedals started to appear.
It may be worth rediscovering them as distortion clipping stages - I actually built a complete preamp including built in Rat type distortion channel and reverb drive mix and recovery sections with three of these chips - I think they cost 50c each too :)
As for Zackis Machine or Andrew's finishing line, I don't think I like that type of crossover notch distortion sound - give me a Tonebender Pro MkII anyday :D
Cheers
Steve

User avatar
Dan N
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 18:54
Location: Oregon USA
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Post by Dan N »

I'm not familiar with that 2 transistor PNP/NPN snippet in those circuits, except maybe in the output stage of cheap old transistor amps. Without ever really hearing a "machine", what tonal effect can we expect from such a design?

Edit- I see Andrew calls it a "non-selective frequency tripler".

User avatar
bajaman
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4549
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 21:18
Location: New Brighton, Christchurch, NZ
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 2058 times

Post by bajaman »

Hi Dan N

Andrew's circuit is a little different to the machine - it has a way of adjusting the bias - but I think you can see where he got the idea from :wink:
Have a look at the internal schematic for the Cmos hex inverting buffer (CD4069) I mentioned earlier in this thread - if you download (google it) the datasheet from Philips, you will find some interesting info there :wink:
on how to use it as an amplifier, and although it is composed of cmos fet devices, I think you will see the similarity to the Machine snippet.

As to how the Machine sounds, I have not built one to test, but have heard it described as like a machette cutting through butter - not a pleasant sound at all :(
If the schematic is correct you will notice it exploits the non linearity of the transistors near the zero crossing point, due to a lack of bias on them - spitty fizzy sound, not reccomended for da blues :lol:
Cheers
Steve

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Zacki claims himself:
One thing to keep in mind, however, is that this pedal basically sounds horrible. It's primary purpose is to cut through. But like a wild man with a machete, it is not nice.
Zacki must know it...

He describes the function:
I designed this new distortion generator, Machine, with some different limitations. Like try playing chords through it. Hmmm. But put it in front of any string of fuzz pedals, and try to make it disappear. Machine is actually a dual frequency-tripler circuit that uses crossover distortion for the first time in any pedal, ever.
Have a look at the Ludwig Phase-II and you will know that´s not true. Another examples are available.

Machine is..."a dual frequency tripler"...Whats that ?
"dual" is ok...but: "frequency tripler" ?
In reality does he mean: "frequency tripper" ?

This circuit may be able to produce signals with "double" frequency, "dual" could maybe produce "quad" frequencies (2x2 = 4), but "tripler" would mean three times (or "dual" 6-times) the original frequency.... :? :? :?
It generates the distortion of the wave in the sloped part of the cycle, instead of the peaks and valleys like all other distorters and fuzzes. In other words, it distorts when your guitar string is in the middle of vibrating, while it's swinging, not as it's turning around. That's the same place where your speaker cone is sort of coasting, between all the way in and all the way out. Where nothing is happening, this pedal happens. With Machine you can leave your favorite distorting pedals on and still add a new element of energetic grind.
...if you send before your hard-earned money to Zacki....

Later on I will have a deeper lokk at the "tech" part.

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
modman
a d m i n
Information
Posts: 4890
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 16:57
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 2131 times

Post by modman »

there's a youtube demo vid by the man himself. For what it's worth

Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal

User avatar
Dan N
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 267
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 18:54
Location: Oregon USA
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Post by Dan N »

Thanks guys. I thought I'd never seen a complementary pair in a fuzz. AG shows I did (in the Ludwig), but didn't pick up on it.

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Let´s have a quick look at the roots of diode clipping:

UsPat 3.166.639

familiar ?

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
Igloo
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 171
Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 09:33
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Igloo »

I'm looking at those 3906/3904 pairs and not 'getting' it.
Ummm, how does that work?

User avatar
Isaiah
Information
Posts: 18
Joined: 11 Jul 2007, 17:09

Post by Isaiah »

Ken Stone uses a similar setup (the PNP / NPN pairs) as a wavefolder in his synth modules.

User avatar
Isaiah
Information
Posts: 18
Joined: 11 Jul 2007, 17:09

Post by Isaiah »

Ken Stone uses a similar setup (the PNP / NPN pairs) as a wavefolder in his synth modules.

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs52_folder.html
This circuit is based on "Nonselective Frequency Tripler Uses Transistor Saturation Characteristics" by R. Lockhart, Jr., in Electronics Design, Aug. 16, 1973.
Tom Escobedo's Tripple Fuzz .jpg says thanks to Ken Stone 'for the lead', I assume he means to that circuit (by R. Lockhart Jr.). Tom adapted it for guitar use.

Zvex doesn't mention R. Lockhart Jr.
A bit unfair if he didn't come up with it himself (and I doubt he did, if he then refers to it as a frequency trippling crossover distortion or whatever).

Anyhow, Ken Stone mentions that you can mix a DC voltage (in his synth module) to sweepthe harmonics... interesting!

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

Hey funny, PT is "re-inventing" a derivat of the zvex-machine with mosfets:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=59383.0
no matching - just grabbed the first ones out of 2 bags...

automatic exactly 4,5V (4V5)/(4.5V) biasing!

and that`s what stumped me, too:
no datasheet or schoolbook description has been able to explain to me why this actually happens...
I am not a schoolbook, but..... maybe this happens because the (high-impedance)-gates get a DC-voltage via Rfb :roll:

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
bajaman
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4549
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 21:18
Location: New Brighton, Christchurch, NZ
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 2058 times

Post by bajaman »

Yawn :roll:
Why bother with discrete devices - just grab a CD4049 or 4069 - you get six complementary pairs on one chip :wink:
parallel them for lower noise or higher current capability, or in series for unlimited sustain and crazy surf sound like the Peavey 5150 :lol:
Check out these links for more info
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetmay.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjun.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetjul.pdf
http://www.nutsvolts.com/~downloads/fetaug.pdf

Cheers
Steve

ps: should we tell pure....
:lol:

User avatar
analogguru
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3238
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 13:58
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by analogguru »

I would prefer a 4007. :wink:

analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.

User avatar
bajaman
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4549
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 21:18
Location: New Brighton, Christchurch, NZ
Has thanked: 595 times
Been thanked: 2058 times

Post by bajaman »

Ok - but you only get one pair and 4 singles - which reminds me - Fender used that chip in the early 80s for the distortion channel of their stage lead amplifier, or was it the harvard - hmmm - one of them - hissed like a snake :lol: :lol:
cheers
Steve

User avatar
Igloo
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 171
Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 09:33
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Igloo »

Here from AG's schematic at the start of the thread but done quickly...somebody please check!

Image

User avatar
Igloo
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 171
Joined: 08 Jul 2007, 09:33
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Igloo »

Maybe a chorus line of elephants helps?



ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
tuemmueh
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 165
Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 23:30
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by tuemmueh »

After a quick checking I think it's correct, just place a cut under C2.
Thanks for the layout!

Post Reply