Schumann PLL  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

Good news folks!

I tried both an MM74C14N, and a CD40106BCN in place of the SN74HC14N. Both are good between 3vdc to 15vdc, and both work fine. Between them and the 74HC14, I don't hear any difference at all, and functionality is the same. Maybe better. I think a get more of a difference between settings, but then again, I've been wearing the headphones on this thing for the last 3 days, so I might be getting PLL deaf by now. Also, I've cranked the voltage up to +/-12vdc. Everything works perfect.

I recommend going with this IC, unless you wish to be uber-precise where the clone is concerned. Personally, I'm leaving the MM74C14 in there, and running it at 12vdc. One of those moments of folly where I decide to stray from the original.

I was at ABRA Electronics today, and I came across this 12vac 800ma power adapter; http://www.abra-electronics.com/product ... 2.1mm.html. I bought one, because the in-store price was $2.99. Yeah, you read right... $2.99! With the right plug and everything. I tried it tonight, and it works fine.

Also, I tried a 2.2M resistor for R6. I dunno, I might be having sonic hallucinations, but it didn't sound as good to my ears. I put the 1M back in. Here's a video I shot, this is with the 2.2M resistor, and the SN74HC14N chip. It's a mishmash of knob twiddling, and general sonic mayhem, but there's some decent stuff in there as well. I'll do another one with the stock 1M in R6, and the MM74C14N.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwldgSVa ... e=youtu.be[/youtube]
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

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square wave
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Post by square wave »

I'd love to watch the demo, but your video is marked as private.

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

Sorry, new Youtube layout messed me up. It's public now.
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

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Intripped
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Post by Intripped »

CD40106BCN seems to be a perfect substitute for the SN74HC14N, also because it can handle a Vcc max of 15V instead of the 6V only of SN74HC14N

something i still don't understand is that picture of the well-known 9V version: there's a CD4016BE over there, but this chip is a CMOS QUAD BILATERAL SWITCH, and not a HEX INVERTING SCHMITT TRIGGER as it is supposed to be
...so why CD4016BE in that picture? ...first 14-pin chip available, just to take the photo? ...big mistake? ...camouflage/misinformation?


edit: digi2t - killer wiring and demo :thumbsup

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

OK, here's a recording I did. The chain is - Guitar into a BR-600, with a touch of reverb added for ambiance.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12395052&q=hi

The recording is divided as follows;

- 0:00 - 0:08 - Clean guitar (neck pup, single coil).
- 0:08 - 0:28 - Fuzz only.
- 0:28 - 1:04 - Multiplier only (switching through each interval, low to high).
- 1:04 - 1:37 - Divider only (switching though each interval, high to low).
- 1:37 - 2:43 - Multiplier and Divider (switching both together as the previous sound bytes).
- 2.43 - 3:42 - Fuzz / Multiplier / Divider combo.
- 3:42 - 4:54 - Fuzz / Multiplier / Divider / Looping combo.
- 4:54 - 6:07 - Fuzz / Multiplier / Divider / Drone combo.
- 6.07 - 7:11 - Fuzz / Multiplier / Divider / Drone / Looping combo (switching intervals at the very end).
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

Govmnt_Lacky
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Post by Govmnt_Lacky »

Intripped wrote: ...camouflage/misinformation?
Bet! :thumbsup

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

I've updated Jonas' schematic to reflect my vero, and updated my veros to reflect my final verified build. Everything is in the Gallery, here;

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/digi2t/veros/Schumann+PLL/

If what I've boxed tickles your fancy, then use the vero, and accompanying schematic, and you'll have what I have. Going back and listening to Water Places' unit clips, I feel my clone sounds and tracks a touch better. Might be the cap change, or the hex Schmitt trigger change... who knows. I'm not messing with it anymore though.
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

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square wave
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Post by square wave »

I'm placing my parts order now, but I have a question: On digi2t's vero, IC7 is a CD4017BE but IC6 is a CB4017BE. Google and DigiKey don't turn up much of anything on the latter. Is that a typo?

What kind of wattage should those trim pots be rated for?

Also, anyone know how the Infanem Second Voice Deluxe compares to the Schumann?

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square wave
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Post by square wave »

Nevermind, I figured it out. Parts will be here in a few weeks. :thumbsup

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

square wave wrote:I'm placing my parts order now, but I have a question: On digi2t's vero, IC7 is a CD4017BE but IC6 is a CB4017BE. Google and DigiKey don't turn up much of anything on the latter. Is that a typo?

What kind of wattage should those trim pots be rated for?

Also, anyone know how the Infanem Second Voice Deluxe compares to the Schumann?

AW CRAP!! "CB" is a typo, I didn't catch it. I'll correct it ASAP. They're both CD4017BE.

Sorry for any confusion. :roll:

I used the BOURNS 3299 trimmer. It's rated at 0.5 watt, it works fine.
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

Typo has been corrected, and image re-uploaded.

Thanks for spotting the error. 8)
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

glops
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Post by glops »

square wave wrote:I'm placing my parts order now, but I have a question: On digi2t's vero, IC7 is a CD4017BE but IC6 is a CB4017BE. Google and DigiKey don't turn up much of anything on the latter. Is that a typo?

What kind of wattage should those trim pots be rated for?

Also, anyone know how the Infanem Second Voice Deluxe compares to the Schumann?
My friend let me borrow a 2nd v deluxe. I was really unimpressed. The tracking was fucking great but the overall sound is really bland. The fuzz is really tame and the active low pass filters didn't do much for me. The s PLL sounds wilder. Bread board it and fuck around with the few components on the 4046 and create your own recipe.

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Post by digi2t »

glops wrote:
square wave wrote:I'm placing my parts order now, but I have a question: On digi2t's vero, IC7 is a CD4017BE but IC6 is a CB4017BE. Google and DigiKey don't turn up much of anything on the latter. Is that a typo?

What kind of wattage should those trim pots be rated for?

Also, anyone know how the Infanem Second Voice Deluxe compares to the Schumann?
My friend let me borrow a 2nd v deluxe. I was really unimpressed. The tracking was fucking great but the overall sound is really bland. The fuzz is really tame and the active low pass filters didn't do much for me. The s PLL sounds wilder. Bread board it and fuck around with the few components on the 4046 and create your own recipe.
I`ve only seen one Youtube video on the Second Voice (Deluxe model), and the sound of it was, ahem..., meh! I compare it to the Schumann, as one being the straight-laced pencil-necked geek child, and the other, the tattoed beer drinking, hellraising older brother, who gets all the girls. And I mean ALL the girls. Even their mothers.

Just my POV.
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

glops
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Post by glops »

digi2t wrote:
glops wrote:
square wave wrote:I'm placing my parts order now, but I have a question: On digi2t's vero, IC7 is a CD4017BE but IC6 is a CB4017BE. Google and DigiKey don't turn up much of anything on the latter. Is that a typo?

What kind of wattage should those trim pots be rated for?

Also, anyone know how the Infanem Second Voice Deluxe compares to the Schumann?
My friend let me borrow a 2nd v deluxe. I was really unimpressed. The tracking was fucking great but the overall sound is really bland. The fuzz is really tame and the active low pass filters didn't do much for me. The s PLL sounds wilder. Bread board it and fuck around with the few components on the 4046 and create your own recipe.
I`ve only seen one Youtube video on the Second Voice (Deluxe model), and the sound of it was, ahem..., meh! I compare it to the Schumann, as one being the straight-laced pencil-necked geek child, and the other, the tattoed beer drinking, hellraising older brother, who gets all the girls. And I mean ALL the girls. Even their mothers.

Just my POV.
"Even their mothers." Exactly! The 2nd voice was cool but I'd rather just plug in a synth. The PLL takes a nice shit on sound.

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square wave
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Post by square wave »

My PLLs aren't here yet as they're coming from asia, but I just finished breadboarding the fuzz section. This thing is insane. :lol:

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Post by freq67 »

Exactly!!! Here is the main problem I've had with re-tools of older noise/fuzz type pedals. The magic in these pedals is the roughness and awkward ways they can be set to have a unique sound! Then someone will build a clone and say "well this bias is to low or this filter is fucked up" and what generally happens is a anemic version is born. Example: I love when a note on a fuzz dies and blooms. Some would say that's bad lets fix that. Why?? V

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Post by square wave »

Got the whole thing breadboarded now. Totally off the hook. Gonna tweak the thing to my liking then I've got to figure out how to box it up. :horsey:

digi2t
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Post by digi2t »

square wave wrote:Got the whole thing breadboarded now. Totally off the hook. Gonna tweak the thing to my liking then I've got to figure out how to box it up. :horsey:
My final product, in the Multicomp enclosure.

Image

8)
No matter how many times I cut it, it`s STILL too short!

https://www.deadendfx.com/

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Post by ITO »

Who has the device and can try HEF4069UBN (or similar) instead 74HC14N, what is your opinion, whether an adequate substitute?
P.S. Sorry for my English).

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square wave
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Post by square wave »

ITO wrote:Who has the device and can try HEF4069UBN (or similar) instead 74HC14N, what is your opinion, whether an adequate substitute?
P.S. Sorry for my English).
Those parts are not the same. A 4069 is functionally the same as a 7404 / 74C04 / 74HC04; they're all hex inverters. 7414's are hex-schmitt-trigger-inverters. The PLL needs a solid square wave to do its job and, without the added hysteresis from the schmitt triggers, it might not work correctly. I guess it depends on how effective the op-amp square wave stage is.

I don't have any 4069's to test for you. Sorry.

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