Black Arts Black Sheep  [traced]

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rocket8810
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Post by rocket8810 »

I'm going to start off with, sorry for the double post. i put this under the requests section as well. i wasn't sure which would be the correct and better place to put it.

i know this is basically a modified BeeBaa, with a cap selector switch like the black forest, and no tone selector or boost. i actually bought one, and while it was good, i really wanted to tweak it mostly i didn't like the cap selector, it would cut a lot more low end then i wanted. before i returned it i took some pictures of the PCB and marked some of the caps as as i could see them. hopefully someone could reverse it and come up with a working schematic.

Image

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also here's a schematic for the normal BeeBaa, from generalguitargadgets, since this is basically a modified version of it. i think there are some changes to the values on certain caps and resistors, plus the cap selector switch.
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Post by rocket8810 »

None atm. I have to take one time and try to place the image of the top of the board and bottom of the board so it can be traced. I just haven't had any time to do it.

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Post by rocket8810 »

not sure if anyone still is interested in this one. i completely forgot about this, and had some time so i just sat down and placed the two images i have of the board on top of each other. so if someone, who is better then i am could take a look, maybe we can get a working schematic and i'll gladly make a layout for everyone.

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Post by Ebethron »

Definitely interested. I am fairly new to building pedals and Love B.A.T. stuff.

I am by no means good at this but really would like to figure this one out. So I checked all the resistor color codes up online in one of those apps. Some of the bands are really hard to see what the exact color is. So feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

Just trying to chip in on this one:

Image

Please help us out and see if we can add another great pedal to our board!

Thanks

:horsey:

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mmolteratx
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Post by mmolteratx »

Ebethron wrote:Definitely interested. I am fairly new to building pedals and Love B.A.T. stuff.

I am by no means good at this but really would like to figure this one out. So I checked all the resistor color codes up online in one of those apps. Some of the bands are really hard to see what the exact color is. So feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

Just trying to chip in on this one:

[ Image ]

Please help us out and see if we can add another great pedal to our board!

Thanks

:horsey:
A TON of these values are wrong. I'll take a look at it in a bit, but I see a very good number that are very far off what they actually read.

EDIT: At a quick glance, the only changes are the 4n7 caps became 10n, there's an input cap switch between 4n7, 10n, 390n and 1µ, the tone switch is eliminated and only the top notch filter is left, the tone control cap is changed from 22n to 10n and it looks like R24 and R25 from the GGG schematic have been eliminated.

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rocket8810
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Post by rocket8810 »

I can tell you the cap values I listed as spot on. I read them right off the effect when I had it and I know the biggest change is the input cap selector. But, as odd as it sounds, I'm not sure exactly where the input cap selector is placed, as the regular beebaa there's the sustain pot and boost at the beginning of the effect then a 1uF cap into the first stage, so I would guess that's where the switch should go, but again I'm not sure. Any chance of making a new schematic, this way I don't do add something's that I don't need to by accident by working off the ggg schematic.

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Post by mmolteratx »

rocket8810 wrote:I can tell you the cap values I listed as spot on. I read them right off the effect when I had it and I know the biggest change is the input cap selector. But, as odd as it sounds, I'm not sure exactly where the input cap selector is placed, as the regular beebaa there's the sustain pot and boost at the beginning of the effect then a 1uF cap into the first stage, so I would guess that's where the switch should go, but again I'm not sure. Any chance of making a new schematic, this way I don't do add something's that I don't need to by accident by working off the ggg schematic.
Not the cap values, the resistor values that were added in the picture quoted. I might draw up a schematic if I have time, but no guarantees. Not terribly interested in this one since there are so few changes from the original.

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Post by Ebethron »

A TON of these values are wrong. I'll take a look at it in a bit, but I see a very good number that are very far off what they actually read.

EDIT: At a quick glance, the only changes are the 4n7 caps became 10n, there's an input cap switch between 4n7, 10n, 390n and 1µ, the tone switch is eliminated and only the top notch filter is left, the tone control cap is changed from 22n to 10n and it looks like R24 and R25 from the GGG schematic have been eliminated.
I figured that would be the case. I have only built 2 pedals so far. Hoping to keep this thread alive ;-)

But If you can correct me where I am wrong that would be great. I just had a hard time reading the colors on the resistors. Maybe someone with more experience would correct me out of annoyance...

Thanks in advance MR mmolteratx!!!

:mrgreen:

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V1nce69
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Post by V1nce69 »

Hi everybody,
Owning one of these, I thought I could give some input here.
I noted all caps with both code and value.
Resistors noted in green have been unsoldered and measured with a multimeter, as the colour code was ambiguous. The others are noted in yellow.

Volume, Tone and Gain are A100K. Depth is a 4 way rotary switch, that switches caps 4.7nF, 47nF, 470nF and 1µF.

Here are the pics:
Black Sheep, pots
Black Sheep, pots
BAT Black Sheep_values
BAT Black Sheep_values
BAT Black Sheep_board
BAT Black Sheep_board
I haven't had time to trace it yet. I'll give it a try when I can.

Hope this can help those wanting to know a bit more about it.

Vincent

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Post by rocket8810 »

awesome. i sold mine, cause i wasn't too happy with it with my rig, not enough low end for my taste, which is why i wanted to clone it so i can tweak it more for my liking. should have done a little more to work on the trace before returning it, as i figured i could trace it from the pics i took, but i can't make out where some of the traces go under components, hindsight is 20:20.

i started putting it on my breadboard to get the stock circuit, and these will definitely help the cause. as mmolteratx said, it doesn't seem all that different then a beebaa with the tone and boost switch removed, tone control is the notch filter, but some of the parts have been throwing me, like the 330pF ceramic cap that seems to go from the emitter to ground of the transistor in the middle of the board. any help on the trace would be more then excellent, and i can get a stock layout down asap.

I do see 1 mistake. The black wire you have marked as ground on next to the switch wires isn't ground if you look at the markings on the bottom of the board. That's actually the wire for sw4. Your markings for the switch worse should be moved to the left 1, and the wire marked sw1, is actually swA according to the markings on the bottom of the board. Ground is the one you marked as battery.

great job so far, and thanks for any more help on this one.

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Post by rocket8810 »

Made a trace of the top and bottom of the board as best as I could from the images. There's a few parts I don't have connected, as I can't find their connection to the circuit. Hopefully we can figure out theirs position in the circuit.

Image

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Post by rocket8810 »

I brightened the image of the top of the board and compared it to the one I had taken since I got it from a different angle, and I've caught a few issues with my trace, and figured out some missing traces. I'm working on a new one and will try to get it up tomorrow. There's definitely some traces that run under some of the components making it hard to tell were they go and end, in perticular the column of resistors had a track under it that I don't know if it goes to the transitor or to one of those resistors.

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Russian Big Muff (Musikding kit)
EHX Bassballs (home etched using Topopiccione layout)
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Post by V1nce69 »

Teardown of this one is nearly completed.
Here's a new closer view if the pcb itself.

I drew a layout on Illustrator. There're just two traces that I'm not sure of. I left them unconnected.

Traces on the components side are orange, those on the other side are reddish. The small red round circles are the holes either connecting traces on both sides or ground connections.
black sheep PCB layout
black sheep PCB layout
Black Sheep PCB layout.tiff (180.45 KiB) Viewed 1561 times
pcb closer view
pcb closer view

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rocket8810
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Post by rocket8810 »

Awesome work man, I i was just finishing the trace I made, and those circles were part of what I wasnt sure of, and some of the assumptions I wS making on the new trace were actually right, when I compared it to the stock beebaa. I'll start making a schematic, and once we fill in the unsure parts I'll make a vero layout for those that want to put this together. :thumbsup

Btw, I'm sue wWhen you pout this back together you'll do a much better soldering job then when you got it. Some of the original soldering seemed a little shakey to me. I mean if im not mistaken there's some hefty burn marks.

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Post by rocket8810 »

i started looking closely at your trace and comparing it to what i was figuring, and i'm 100% sure the 47uF cap on the far right, that's above the 470pF cap is connected to the 10k. when looking at the schematic of the original there's a 47uF cap that goes to ground connected to the collector of Q1. also, i'm not 100% sure that the 1n4001 and 100uF connect to +9V. i think it's there for polarity protection.

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Idiot box Blowerbox

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Fulltone 69 (GGG kit)
Russian Big Muff (Musikding kit)
EHX Bassballs (home etched using Topopiccione layout)
BJFE BBOD (home etched, thx FSB)
Triangle Muff (Guitar PCB board)
Deluxe Bass Fuzz (home etched,gausmarkov.net layout)
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Post by V1nce69 »

Thanks !

Edit to my last post.
I verified the missing connections with a multimeter , and added them to the drawing.
There was a small connection missing between 2 resistors 22k and 47k, it's also been edited.

I then noted in black parts going to ground. I hope I didn't miss any.
Attachments
Black sheep PCB Layout (edited)
Black sheep PCB Layout (edited)
BAT Black Sheep PCB layout.tiff (190.34 KiB) Viewed 1532 times

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Post by rocket8810 »

Also, I just noticed, and I'm not sure if the one you have had the transistor backwards or the pinout was backward, but Q3, without a doubt should go from left to right CBE,not EBC like the rest of them. That's comparing the trace to the board I had, and the schematic for the original.

I should have the schematic done tonight, or if I get some time tomorrow during my lunch I'll finish it up.

Again, awesome work man. Thanks.

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Post by rocket8810 »

My computer isn't behaving so I drew out the schematic on paper, it's the best I can do for now. Figured I would post it for someone to give it a double check before I go and make a layout. The one thing that seems odd to me that the caps between B & C for Q1 & Q3 were upped, but for Q2 it was lowered.

Image

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V1nce69
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Black Arts Quantum Mystic
Roger Mayer Voodoo Bass
Idiot box Blowerbox

Pcb builds:
Fulltone 69 (GGG kit)
Russian Big Muff (Musikding kit)
EHX Bassballs (home etched using Topopiccione layout)
BJFE BBOD (home etched, thx FSB)
Triangle Muff (Guitar PCB board)
Deluxe Bass Fuzz (home etched,gausmarkov.net layout)
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Post by V1nce69 »

rocket8810 wrote:Also, I just noticed, and I'm not sure if the one you have had the transistor backwards or the pinout was backward, but Q3, without a doubt should go from left to right CBE,not EBC like the rest of them. That's comparing the trace to the board I had, and the schematic for the original.

I should have the schematic done tonight, or if I get some time tomorrow during my lunch I'll finish it up.

Again, awesome work man. Thanks.
Hi,
Yes I had quite a hard time at unsoldering all these parts. The 3PDT was especially difficult !! I used a solder pump, cause' IMHO it's what works best and quick so that your components won't get overheated. Resistors are quite easy to lift, capacitors soldered so close to the board not.

Regarding your last post I'm not sure of what you say because after looking closely at my board I can assure you that
on mine all three transistors are oriented the same way, i.e. C B E front left to right.
Transistors are noted as following: 2N
5089
-H41

Maybe you can see that in one of my pictures
Black Sheep PCB closeview
Black Sheep PCB closeview
Thanks for drawing the schematic !

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V1nce69
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Completed builds: Veroboards builds:
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Wampler Ecstasy
Creepy Fingers Doomidrive
Black Arts Quantum Mystic
Roger Mayer Voodoo Bass
Idiot box Blowerbox

Pcb builds:
Fulltone 69 (GGG kit)
Russian Big Muff (Musikding kit)
EHX Bassballs (home etched using Topopiccione layout)
BJFE BBOD (home etched, thx FSB)
Triangle Muff (Guitar PCB board)
Deluxe Bass Fuzz (home etched,gausmarkov.net layout)
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland
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Post by V1nce69 »

V1nce69 wrote:Thanks !

Edit to my last post.
I verified the missing connections with a multimeter , and added them to the drawing.
There was a small connection missing between 2 resistors 22k and 47k, it's also been edited.

I then noted in black parts going to ground. I hope I didn't miss any.

I noticed there was a small error in my layout. The pad in the top right labeled "OJ", is fact the Input from jack. It should then be "IJ".

I'm quite sure you also have seen this one… :roll:

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