Frantone - The Sweet  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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CloneME
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Post by CloneME »

?I hear some people have found one at DIY Musikding but I can't. Any help?

I can supply gut shots if people are intrested!

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Post by bajaman »

use the search function on this site :wink:
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CloneME
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Post by CloneME »

bajaman wrote:use the search function on this site :wink:
bajaman
I have and got nothing. Did I miss something?

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Post by soulsonic »

I couldn't find the thread for it either. I think it might gotten posted in the middle of an unrelated thread because I have the schematic and it came from somewhere on this site.
I'll repost here so it can have its own thread.

Enjoy!
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Frantone, The Sweet
Frantone, The Sweet
"Analog electronics in music is dead. Analog effects pedal design is a dead art." - Fran

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Cow4prez
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Post by Cow4prez »

^^ looks like a muff

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inabox
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Post by inabox »

CloneME wrote:?I hear some people have found one at DIY Musikding but I can't. Any help?

I can supply gut shots if people are intrested!
post your gut shots. Yep the sweet is muff based, didnt mrs Fran, designed the usa big muff or the little big muff

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JHS
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Post by JHS »

IMHO too much gain from the 1st stage for those GE-trannies, when the gain is maxed they can't stand this pound and the tone is unusable. I would add a trimpot after the 1st stage for limiting the max. gain and would adj. it 'til the sounds starts gargling.

JHS

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Post by MoreCowbell »

JHS wrote:IMHO too much gain from the 1st stage for those GE-trannies, when the gain is maxed they can't stand this pound and the tone is unusable. I would add a trimpot after the 1st stage for limiting the max. gain and would adj. it 'til the sounds starts gargling.

JHS
I would tend to agree...

Your suggestion is excellent...alternately, you could use a more appropriate (read: lower gain) transistor at Q1.

The way its set up...and I used to have a Sweet....is that, to my ears, gain above about 2 or 3 O'Clock gets a bit "useless". Below that level, its a VERY good sounding pedal.

Also... Q3 doesn't really need to be germanium...Q2 works just fine and keeps about the same tonality. (Plus I don't use the clipping diodes on Q2.... it gives the sound a bit more "muscle".

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Post by bajaman »

Has anyone EVER been able to tell me what Q4 is - it is FS25444 on the Musikding schematic - npn silicon :?: - I think not :scratch: :hmmm:
I have tried NPN silicon trannies and with those bias resitor values they do not bias correctly at all. The only thing i could get to bias correctly (with those resistor values) was a BS170 small signal mosfet transistor :shock: :shock:
And yes I have tried P Jfets as well as N channel J Fets - no bias properly either type.
If anyone can clear up what this mystery (looks like a late sixties Fairchild epitaxial on the pictures) device is, i would be extremely grateful - I have delayed releasing this as a DIY project because of this uncertainty :wink: :wink:
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Post by bajaman »

For those interested:
members/bajaman/Baja/Baja%20The%20Sweet/
cheers
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Post by seniorLoco »

Bad photos !!!

I don't know what a FS25444 is ...mybe it's from Frans alien cousins [smilie=a_alien.gif]
but from the pics it's pretty much a 2n5133 ...
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Post by bajaman »

Okay - but if it is a small signal NPN silicon type, it will not bias up correctly with those resistor values!!
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Post by ik6gpy »

Aren't the FS***** transistors the ones used in the first 1971 Big Muffs? I've seen some guts of an earlier BM1 with FS36999 (Pnp) trannies in it. They look pretty similiar to the 2N5133. Maybe they're just a relabeled 2N51** .
Matteo

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Post by bajaman »

But the bias resistor values DO NOT WORK with silicon NPN trannies :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
bajaman - now if the 470k was a 47k and the collector load resistor also 47k it will work with thousands of npn silicon devices including BC547 and 2N5088 etc.
But with 220k and 470k base bias and 10k collector and emitter resistors it will not bias properly with npn silicon devices.
if you do not believe me, then breadboard it and see what you think :hmmm: :hmmm: :scratch: :scratch:
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Post by CloneME »

First off bajaman thanks for the emails!

Now the reson I wanted the schem was to find the tone stack. I do own one already. I want to tame it a bit. Add some mids and take out some bass. Since it's not a tone stack I can dial in with Duncan TSC can someone give me some ideas?

I might also try the above suggested chande of Q1 to 2n3904.

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Post by CloneME »

Also what are the resistors after the volume control for?

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Post by Barcode »

bajaman wrote:But the bias resistor values DO NOT WORK with silicon NPN trannies :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
bajaman - now if the 470k was a 47k and the collector load resistor also 47k it will work with thousands of npn silicon devices including BC547 and 2N5088 etc.
But with 220k and 470k base bias and 10k collector and emitter resistors it will not bias properly with npn silicon devices.
if you do not believe me, then breadboard it and see what you think :hmmm: :hmmm: :scratch: :scratch:
bajaman
schem error maybe?

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Post by Emanuele »

bajaman wrote:But the bias resistor values DO NOT WORK with silicon NPN trannies :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
bajaman - now if the 470k was a 47k and the collector load resistor also 47k it will work with thousands of npn silicon devices including BC547 and 2N5088 etc.
But with 220k and 470k base bias and 10k collector and emitter resistors it will not bias properly with npn silicon devices.
if you do not believe me, then breadboard it and see what you think :hmmm: :hmmm: :scratch: :scratch:
bajaman
Maybe the final trannie has been reversed..when they're reversed you can use those values..I did it on my muff, reversed a 2N5088 and then put 1M res to ground..just a bit more sparkly

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Post by bajaman »

Maybe the final trannie has been reversed..when they're reversed you can use those values..I did it on my muff, reversed a 2N5088 and then put 1M res to ground..just a bit more sparkly
:hmmm: :hmmm:
interesting - so you are saying - connect the collector to the 10k//electro, and connect the emitter to the 10k???
OR do you mean use a PNP device in place of the NPN :scratch: :scratch:
OR - is it being used common base configuration???
Confused
:? bajaman
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Post by seniorLoco »

ha ha ha please dont be :scratch: Bajaman...i have done that tranny switchin, by mistake actually...it does the fudge!!
Let's see if anyone can verify that "mystery'' last tranny aye...
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