Death by Audio - Echo Master (gut shots)

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
User avatar
noise-satan
Information
Posts: 1
Joined: 14 Dec 2019, 13:48
Been thanked: 6 times

Post by noise-satan »

Hi guys,
I have bought this and I am really curious to better understand how it works.
just dismounted but I don't have the skills to track it down.

I am sure someone will have the knowledge!
Anyhow hopefully someone will just find the gut shots interesting :D

cheers

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Thanks for this set of photos showing a fascinating set of mixed signals. :shock:
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
modman
a d m i n
Information
Posts: 4890
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 16:57
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 2131 times

Post by modman »

I may take some time for this to get traced, but the only way to guarantee this is to use the attachment function.
Thanks still
Attachments
3TjXVg0.jpg
HOQwhgl.jpg
KbiWpGU.jpg
KOD87V4.jpg
LSBqq5D.jpg
OnTMbF2.jpg
w0aAqnq.jpg
y0EVQqX.jpg
Y2goC1H.jpg
yAj3A5d.jpg
zffPagh.jpg
Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal

User avatar
mookyj
Information
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 02:13
Completed builds: Mu-Tron Digital Delay-memory, level display
Moog Taurus II, full midi conversion
Furman Preamp, revoiced, Level display
SPX 90, converted to II memory
Custom designs for OEM
Accutronics brick reverb
FV-1 Prototype
Location: Cortland, NY
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Contact:

Post by mookyj »

Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way. in well-featured layout tools, it is a simple dialog window assignment in the pad stack. Great purple solder mask.

User avatar
basicchannel
Information
Posts: 19
Joined: 07 Feb 2017, 06:14
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by basicchannel »

"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)

User avatar
plush
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 640
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 09:29
Location: Moscow, Evil Russia
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 171 times

Post by plush »

basicchannel wrote:"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)
At least they did not piss on the board, as they usually do :D

User avatar
thetragichero
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 55
Joined: 31 May 2018, 18:26
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Post by thetragichero »

basicchannel wrote:"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)
that was my first thought as well... yikes!
dig the pot labeling

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

mookyj wrote:Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way.
It may be me but I fail to see which slot's you're referring to.

The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
Ice-9
Degoop Doctor
Information
Posts: 1094
Joined: 31 Mar 2009, 15:29
my favorite amplifier: Marshall
Completed builds: Far to many to afford the enclosures for them all. :)
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 359 times
Contact:

Post by Ice-9 »

The thing that I see first is the wrong type of pot mounting, long legged pots shoved through the solder pads by about half an inch.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?

User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4193
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 887 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

... Define wrong. That's the difficult one. If the device works, can one conclude the design is good?

So, in general, the aim for a decent PCB design is to place all parts and connections in the most optimal way. After taking that into account this aim is immediately challenged by all other constraints that interfere. Jack positions, pot positions, non-optimal pin layout of parts... name em. That's where the challenge starts and the fun for the layouter begins. However it also means that the layouter is free to rearrange all other parts for the most optimal placement. What does not fit in such an arrangement, which is completely evident in this board, is that the layouter considers it more important to place all parts in an even spacing or ensures the rotation of all polarized parts it the same. The time pick and place machines placed in grid are far behind us and the polarization thing comes from the time boards were manually populated. Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd. It's engineering, not free art.

Similar, when done (all is connected n an optimal way) spend some time doing design optimization. As an example look at R13 and wonder how the layout is simplified around that part if it were rotated 180 degrees. Just as well the copper polygons are full of open areas which could have been filled by moving traces a little bit or adding some stitching vias. Five minutes of work for better shielding and less chemical waste. To name a few.

But yes, the purple is nice indeed
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
mookyj
Information
Posts: 20
Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 02:13
Completed builds: Mu-Tron Digital Delay-memory, level display
Moog Taurus II, full midi conversion
Furman Preamp, revoiced, Level display
SPX 90, converted to II memory
Custom designs for OEM
Accutronics brick reverb
FV-1 Prototype
Location: Cortland, NY
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Contact:

Post by mookyj »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:
mookyj wrote:Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way.
It may be me but I fail to see which slot's you're referring to.

The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
slots instead of the oversized holes for the pots

User avatar
modman
a d m i n
Information
Posts: 4890
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 16:57
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 2131 times

Post by modman »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd.
I don't think it is "plain odd" when everything (pedals too, but let's not start about guitars!) are sold on instagram or facebook. There is even some fetishism about gut shot with the facebook pedal builders...

we are so old:
2004: start of facebook
2005: start of youtube
2007: start of freestompboxes :lol:
2010: start of instagram
Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal

User avatar
Agent86
Information
Posts: 12
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 13:37
Been thanked: 13 times

Post by Agent86 »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote: The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
auto-router

User avatar
Ice-9
Degoop Doctor
Information
Posts: 1094
Joined: 31 Mar 2009, 15:29
my favorite amplifier: Marshall
Completed builds: Far to many to afford the enclosures for them all. :)
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 359 times
Contact:

Post by Ice-9 »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:... Define wrong. That's the difficult one. If the device works, can one conclude the design is good?

So, in general, the aim for a decent PCB design is to place all parts and connections in the most optimal way. After taking that into account this aim is immediately challenged by all other constraints that interfere. Jack positions, pot positions, non-optimal pin layout of parts... name em. That's where the challenge starts and the fun for the layouter begins. However it also means that the layouter is free to rearrange all other parts for the most optimal placement. What does not fit in such an arrangement, which is completely evident in this board, is that the layouter considers it more important to place all parts in an even spacing or ensures the rotation of all polarized parts it the same. The time pick and place machines placed in grid are far behind us and the polarization thing comes from the time boards were manually populated. Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd. It's engineering, not free art.

Similar, when done (all is connected n an optimal way) spend some time doing design optimization. As an example look at R13 and wonder how the layout is simplified around that part if it were rotated 180 degrees. Just as well the copper polygons are full of open areas which could have been filled by moving traces a little bit or adding some stitching vias. Five minutes of work for better shielding and less chemical waste. To name a few.

But yes, the purple is nice indeed
Lets define right rather than wrong and more specifically attention to detail when designing anything, you should use the correct part that the thing was designed around or design the pcb for the part you want to use. In this case while it doesn't stop the thing from working the potentiometers used are long legged parts pushed through oversized hole with poor soldering /pad design, they didn't even trim the leg length off. A good solder joint isn't about filling a hole full of solder for an incorrect component. This is also a thing seen often with many big name pedals when using 3PDT footswitches with 3mm round solder holes to fill.

R13 like you mention could be so easily routed better like most of the components, it looks quite auto routed rather than having just a quick human eye over the routing which would also explain the pot pads being oversized from a predefined pattern. Routing is nasty.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?

User avatar
athdimitris
Information
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 Apr 2019, 21:21

Post by athdimitris »

if someone could trace this and draw a layout that would be just swell.

User avatar
modman
a d m i n
Information
Posts: 4890
Joined: 19 Jun 2007, 16:57
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 2131 times

Post by modman »

athdimitris wrote: 22 Jan 2020, 15:37 if someone could trace this and draw a layout that would be just swell.
The basis is basically a Rebote/PT80 delay, one of the oldest DIY echo circuits around
There is a schematic of the DBA Echo Dream 2
Please, support freestompboxes.org on Patreon for just 1 pcb per year! Or donate directly through PayPal

User avatar
seele
Information
Posts: 22
Joined: 06 May 2010, 21:46
my favorite amplifier: Sunn Model T
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by seele »

Reviving an old threat here. Even through this was identified as a rebote delay... how would you go on about the mic preamp, send/return and output sections?
Would be great to have a starting point. I guess there is at least some gain staging and impedance matching involved.
Last edited by seele on 06 Apr 2021, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sesh
Information
Posts: 29
Joined: 02 Jul 2020, 13:07
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Sesh »

seele wrote: 06 Apr 2021, 08:44 Reviving an old threat here. Even through this was identified as a remote delay... how would you go on about the mic preamp, send/return and output sections?
Would be great to have a starting point. I guess there is at least some gain staging and impedance matching involved.
Agree! It could be cool to expand the concept and make a seperate interfacing box for guitar pedals of all sorts for vocals.

User avatar
Visualdistortion
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 102
Joined: 17 Aug 2008, 22:20
my favorite amplifier: Laney
Completed builds: Many...
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Post by Visualdistortion »

I got one also this weekend, I would love to make a clone :) if someone would love to make it, I can make some pictures of everything needed
Attachments
IMG_2466.jpeg
IMG_2461.jpeg
thumbnail_image0.jpg
thumbnail_image1.jpg
I wanna make it
I wanna make it wit chu
(again and again and again)

French... sorry ;)

User avatar
Visualdistortion
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 102
Joined: 17 Aug 2008, 22:20
my favorite amplifier: Laney
Completed builds: Many...
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Post by Visualdistortion »

So it'is my first attempt ever to trace a schematic, it was long!

Maybe I can be wrong but if you have some modification, I can check them!

Schematic updated
Attachments
Schematic.png
Last edited by Visualdistortion on 11 Jun 2023, 17:41, edited 1 time in total.
I wanna make it
I wanna make it wit chu
(again and again and again)

French... sorry ;)

Post Reply