Way Huge - Red Llama 25th Anniversary with Hi Cut

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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tzdvl
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Post by tzdvl »

Hard to believe there is no info on this forum about the 25th Anniversary revision of the Way Huge Red Llama,
specifically the new HI CUT tone control. (The latest version of the Camel Toe also has the tone control in the Red Llama side of that pedal...)

I've seen references to, and questions about, the HI CUT control on the forums, mainly speculation that it might be some version of Mark Hammer's "stupidly wonderful tone control".

I've experimented with the SWTC, and the response of the HI CUT control in the Red Llama demo videos I've seen works MUCH better. Very nice!

So... anyone have any info about the implementation in the real thing?

Thanks!

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tzdvl
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Post by tzdvl »

I recently was able to examine and trace the 25th Anniversary reissue of the Way Huge Red Llama.
The reissue version adds a "Hi Cut" tone control to the basic Red Llama circuit.

Here is the schematic:
Red Llama 25 Schematic.png
The part numbers shown on the schematic are as screened on the circuit board.

It is interesting that, other than the Hi Cut control, there are some additional changes to the original design.

The inputs of the four unused inverters in the CD4049UBE are tied to V+, as expected, but they are connected DIRECTLY to the 9v supply, BEFORE the 1K dropping resistor which goes to pin 1 (Vcc) of the IC.
The board has a zero ohm jumper (R2) in series with the 1K resistor (R1), to allow the option for the dropping resistor to be inserted before or after the connections to the unused inverters.

The other changes are minor.

The fixed resistor (R7) in series with the Drive control in the feedback loop of the Llama's first gain stage has been reduced from 100K to 91 K, which allows for slightly reduce minimum gain of the first stage.

The resistance in the feedback loop of the second stage has been increased from 1Meg to 2Meg (actually two 1Meg resistors in series, R5 & R6), which doubles the gain of the second stage. Probably to compensate for the loss due to adding the Hi Cut control.

I got good photos of the electronics, but I understand I should not post gut shots of Way Huge pedals on the forums...
Last edited by tzdvl on 16 Jan 2021, 14:59, edited 2 times in total.

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Nocentelli
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Post by Nocentelli »

tzdvl wrote: 15 Jan 2021, 20:51 I got good photos of the electronics, but I understand I should not post gut shots of Way Huge pedals on the forums...
Why not? It is perfectly fine to do so. The proprietor of "the other stompbox forum" has (or had) some odd personal agreement with a few select builders not to host schematics of their circuits, but this is freestompboxes.org and pretty much anything goes here (apart from posting e.g. factory schematic artwork that might infringe intellectual property rights). Internal gut shots are positively encouraged. :horsey:
modman wrote: Let's hope it's not a hit, because soldering up the same pedal everyday, is a sad life. It's that same ole devilish double bind again...

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Post by tzdvl »

Nocentelli wrote: 15 Jan 2021, 23:20
Why not? It is perfectly fine to do so. The proprietor of "the other stompbox forum" has (or had) some odd personal agreement with a few select builders not to host schematics of their circuits, but this is freestompboxes.org and pretty much anything goes here (apart from posting e.g. factory schematic artwork that might infringe intellectual property rights). Internal gut shots are positively encouraged. :horsey:
OK, here are the pics...

Gut shot:
Red Llama 25 Gut Shot.jpg
Board, both sides:
Red Llama 25 Anniv Board C.jpg
Overlay view:
Red Llama 25 Ghost Shot B.jpg
Traces of Hi Cut circuit and power supply arrangement:
Red Llama Traces.png
Red Llama Traces.png (232.92 KiB) Viewed 6367 times

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Post by ninjarig »

What is the name of the white snap-in wire connectors?

I am looking to order some for my own builds...

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Post by digitalzombie »

What's going on with that top board with all the SMDs?

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Post by JiM »

ninjarig wrote: 31 Jan 2021, 13:32What is the name of the white snap-in wire connectors?
IDC, as "insulation displacement connector" maybe ?
I only give negative feedback.

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Post by tzdvl »

digitalzombie wrote: 31 Jan 2021, 16:11 What's going on with that top board with all the SMDs?
The board with the SMD components is for input/output "true bypass" switching, battery/AC switching, and possibly for power polarity/over-voltage protection.
The same board is common to many, if not all, recent Way Huge pedals.

I did find some online photos of the switching board (from a different WH pedal), along with an attempt at circuit analysis (from the same website):

Image
Image

"The upper board has a CD4013 dual flip-flop, a CD4093B quad NAND gate and a relay to handle the bypass. The manual says the pedal has "AC protection", I don't know if this is just a series Shottky diode or something more sophisticated. There are some opamps and what looks like a IRF7606 Mosfet in a micro-8 package, that could be doing some power switching in case of reverse polarity or an AC supply connected. Relay is a EA2-5SNJ, similar to what's in a DL4.”


I didn't pay much attention to that switching board when I was examining the Red Llama, because the components on the board are irrelevant to the actual function of the effect circuit (and I don't have access to the original pedal now).

The mechanical footswitch in these pedals is a single-pole momentary switch (normally open, closes when pressed). It controls switching of a relay on the upper board, as a fancy replacement for a 3PDT "true bypass" mechanical footswitch. The switch is very quiet - no "ka-chunk" that you hear with a 3PDT latching switch.

When you power up the pedal it always comes on in bypass mode (LED off).

The switching circuit works very well, and seems elegantly implemented, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to duplicate the circuit as a DIY project... :mrgreen:
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Post by ninjarig »

JiM wrote: 31 Jan 2021, 17:30
ninjarig wrote: 31 Jan 2021, 13:32What is the name of the white snap-in wire connectors?
IDC, as "insulation displacement connector" maybe ?

MOOCHO
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A$$

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Post by bc108 »

Built it on proto-board today. Nice, sounds almost the same compared with the classic one.

R5+R6 (2M) adds a bit more of gain, but cut a bit of lows.
C1 is EXTREMELY NECESSARY after R1 (at least on my test rig) to aboid motorboat or squealing when gain is at max.
R8, C1 and VR1 makes almost not difference with them at maximum highs.. but it's easily bypasseable w/switch to get the classic one.

Thanks for share!

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Post by bc108 »

Is the "hi cut" a low pass filter? Totally useless. Not a good sweep/range.
Use instead a BigMuff tone stack there, bypasseable by a switch, bumping some mids and get a lot more usable tone palette.

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Post by Lukasen »

I really like Anderton's Tube Sound Fuzz invention (hats off). And also Red Llama and EHX Hot Tubes... But few understood the pitfalls of CMOS in linear mode. R. G. Keen already warns against this on his website, and the dog is really buried in it.
The thing is, if you build anything on CMOS chips in linear mode, the effect will sound different in different positions of your effects chain (unless you have a buffer behind it). This is because CMOS unfortunately has a very high output impedance. Even sadder is how many others they have merely copied but not improved upon.
All you need is a buffer at the end. So it is :-).
(If it oscillates, set the capacitor at the buffer input lower, around 10 nF.)

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