Durham - Crazy Horse [goop-alarm]  [traced]

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jonasx26
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Post by jonasx26 »

To you guys who put this together, how dramatic is the volts control?
I think it's most noticeable when turned down past noon. The decay of the notes get shortened.
When set real low it'll glitch out and do weird (cool) stuff.
I was also surprised at how the volts-control only affects the opamps. Cool idea, definitely.

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Post by Barcode »

jonasx26 wrote:
To you guys who put this together, how dramatic is the volts control?
I think it's most noticeable when turned down past noon. The decay of the notes get shortened.
When set real low it'll glitch out and do weird (cool) stuff.
I was also surprised at how the volts-control only affects the opamps. Cool idea, definitely.
I agree. This would probably vary if you swapped chips too, because opamps can run at a variety of voltages, so the specs of the opamp would determine the behavior of shifting the bias point like that.

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Post by phibes »

Alright, the diode orientation of D5 and D6 was my fuck up after all. I jotted it down wrong. Here's the updated schematic. Rev 2.0 will be most current.

Sorry! :oops:
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Post by Barcode »

Well CRAP Phibes! But I'm confused. When I degooped I also had the 1n4148's in the orientation on your previous schem... ???

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Post by Greg »

phibes wrote:Alright, the diode orientation of D5 and D6 was my fuck up after all. I jotted it down wrong. Here's the updated schematic. Rev 2.0 will be most current.

Sorry! :oops:
phibes and Barcode.. at this time should I delete all previous schematics to save confusion ?..
Also Barcode, I wonder if you could update the layout so I can do the same there.
Let me know.

You know, if you're able.. some clear photos would be great.. and I think everyone would appreciate seeing the layout and components.
:thumbsup
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Post by Barcode »

On second look, I think you are right Phibes.

Greg, yes I'll update my layout. I can say the current layout works and sounds like the original, so now I'm wondering if it makes any real difference. I guess we'll find out!

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Post by Greg »

OK.. I'm gonna clear the old ones.
Thanks.
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Post by Barcode »

Here is the layout updated with the correction. Yes, Greg, please delete previous ones.
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Post by phibes »

Barcode wrote:Well CRAP Phibes! But I'm confused. When I degooped I also had the 1n4148's in the orientation on your previous schem... ???
Haha actually I drew the prelim schematic from the way you had them drawn onto the board shot you sent me. When I went to verify against my board after clearing the shit off, I musta looked at it from the wrong end!!! Whoops! She should be right now. :slap:

Greg, I deleted the old file out of my control panel so no worries on cleaning it up. Rev 2.0, the one attached to this page will be the correct one so make sure that's the one you have on hand. :thumbsup
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Post by RnFR »

even with them switched, having that diode hanging off makes no sense at all. you guys are sure it wasn't connected anywhere?
I'm not saying that it definitely should be connected though, as some have guessed in the past that there was a single led in a nfb loop, which always made sense to me with the samples I have heard. so hey, who knows. maybe it's just Durham being mysterious. :roll: [smilie=a_chuckle.gif]
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Post by Greg »

RnFR wrote:even with them switched, having that diode hanging off makes no sense at all. you guys are sure it wasn't connected anywhere?
I'm not saying that it definitely should be connected though, as some have guessed in the past that there was a single led in a nfb loop, which always made sense to me with the samples I have heard. so hey, who knows. maybe it's just Durham being mysterious. :roll: [smilie=a_chuckle.gif]
I must admit it seems very strange to me.
I can undersatnd a place for it on the board and no component.. but if there was a component there you'd expect it to be for a purpose.
Is there any chance it was soldered to the lead of another component and went astray during the heating for de-gooping ?
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Post by MoonWatcher »

RnFR wrote:even with them switched, having that diode hanging off makes no sense at all. you guys are sure it wasn't connected anywhere?
I'm not saying that it definitely should be connected though, as some have guessed in the past that there was a single led in a nfb loop, which always made sense to me with the samples I have heard. so hey, who knows. maybe it's just Durham being mysterious. :roll: [smilie=a_chuckle.gif]
I remember reading on another board that Durham had some iffy early boards made by a third party - why not use them up? Maybe the intention was to tie it in, put it on a switch or something...Might have paired up well with the sag circuit. I guess he bailed on it? If the boards were third party, maybe they were populated by someone other than him, too. In that case, it's just easier to have those components dropped in, especially if everything on the board is super common parts and values, cheap greenies, etc. Just get 'em populated per "revision 1" plans or whatever it was, and only wire up the relevant parts.

I think it was just a "production decision" that had to be made, and working in production myself for years, the time/cost-effective solutions aren't always elegant. If you are going to bury it under goop, what does it matter anyways (from Durham's perspective)?

If the proof/clues/etc. get destroyed during the degooping, it makes it hard to do anything but guess.

Someone mentioned the effect of IC1B being mild - since the sag/starve/volts thing only affects the op amp stages, maybe it contributes to that? Anyone care to elaborate?

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Post by polarbearfx »

anyone need me to buy a sexdrive so we can get the party started? Or is Greg working on it? Cheers!

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Post by Barcode »

I think Greg is skittish, so feel free.

RnFR: Yep, 100% sure, verified by both of us. The pics of the bottom of the board are from before any heat even touched it, so it certainly doesn't connect on the bottom. And there is no trace on the top or any jumpers or anything that were exposed under the goop. Both of us checked for continuity and there is no connection to ANY other pad that has continuity with that pad.

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Post by phibes »

Yeah the diodes are a mind fuck. No leads were soldered under the board and after the goop was gone, there was no kind of jumpering on top. Just the two diodes soldered into place. The pad that doesn't connect anywhere sits alone. I've tried to make sense of it but really, it's hard to say. It could of been a simple board error. Under the board the were a few leads running to pins on the opamp where you think they just would of used traces so it wouldn't surprise me if that part just got looked over. There isn't anything silk screened for them on the board either.
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Post by Steven_M »

phibes wrote:Yeah the diodes are a mind fuck. No leads were soldered under the board and after the goop was gone, there was no kind of jumpering on top. Just the two diodes soldered into place. The pad that doesn't connect anywhere sits alone. I've tried to make sense of it but really, it's hard to say. It could of been a simple board error. Under the board the were a few leads running to pins on the opamp where you think they just would of used traces so it wouldn't surprise me if that part just got looked over. There isn't anything silk screened for them on the board either.
Is this for sure a two layer board? Is there a chance this is a 3-4 layer board and they just hid the diode connections?

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Post by Barcode »

Steven_M wrote:
phibes wrote:Yeah the diodes are a mind fuck. No leads were soldered under the board and after the goop was gone, there was no kind of jumpering on top. Just the two diodes soldered into place. The pad that doesn't connect anywhere sits alone. I've tried to make sense of it but really, it's hard to say. It could of been a simple board error. Under the board the were a few leads running to pins on the opamp where you think they just would of used traces so it wouldn't surprise me if that part just got looked over. There isn't anything silk screened for them on the board either.
Is this for sure a two layer board? Is there a chance this is a 3-4 layer board and they just hid the diode connections?
Again, for that to be the case, the hole would have to show continuity to another pad somewhere on the board. it does not.

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Post by Steven_M »

Barcode wrote:
Steven_M wrote:
phibes wrote:Yeah the diodes are a mind fuck. No leads were soldered under the board and after the goop was gone, there was no kind of jumpering on top. Just the two diodes soldered into place. The pad that doesn't connect anywhere sits alone. I've tried to make sense of it but really, it's hard to say. It could of been a simple board error. Under the board the were a few leads running to pins on the opamp where you think they just would of used traces so it wouldn't surprise me if that part just got looked over. There isn't anything silk screened for them on the board either.
Is this for sure a two layer board? Is there a chance this is a 3-4 layer board and they just hid the diode connections?
Again, for that to be the case, the hole would have to show continuity to another pad somewhere on the board. it does not.
Gotcha. Thanks!

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Post by phibes »

Judging by the routing techniques, all straight line tracing and use of jumpers with a double sided board, I don't think whoever designed it could come up with a 3 to 4 layer design.
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Post by Greg »

Barcode wrote:I think Greg is skittish, so feel free.
:mrgreen: that entertains me Barcode. I have a friend who will tell you there's nothing wrong with his dog.. it's just a bit skittish - after it's just torn a hole in your leg.

The deal is that I haven't even had time to try this thing out properly with a decent amp, and I'm heading overseas in a few days.. so if you guys are in a hurry then yes, better to grab another.
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