Dwarfcraft Devices - The Great Destroyer  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
User avatar
wolfmason
Information
Posts: 4
Joined: 09 Dec 2009, 01:08

Post by wolfmason »

LucifersTrip wrote:...and when I turn the pots to the settings in the demo I don't get anything close.
I think the biggest problem with this one is not how complicated it is, but knowing when it's actually working properly !
Hey Luci, just slapped this badboy on a piece of perf board yesterday using the same schematic as you, and you hit the nail on the head. In short, it's impossible to know what this thing is supposed to do (but I assure you, that schematic is good)

At any given time, it might squeal and feedback, oscillate wildly, create a really insane fuzz, generate square waves, low octaves, high octaves, or it might just sound like a bad OD.

Changing any knob on the box, or on your axe results in a seemingly random, completely unpredictable, tonal 180. As another poster said, none of the knobs do what they claim to. For instance, at some configurations, knob X might result in silence at 0 and 10, feedback at 5, and awesome fuzz at 7. In short, I have no idea how to control it, it's completely unpredictable, and it's totally unusable in a live setting.

That being said, I can't put it down.

Build Hints:

1) I used the MC14149BCP sold by digikey for about 50 cents. Works well. Try flipping the chip around though--One side gave me boring OD, but the other side behaves more like the video. No idea why...

2) If you get it working, you may want to consider attaching a second, independent 500k volume pot (one that dumps to ground) as a "true" output control. This pedal is super loud, and the "volume" control on the schem alters the effect, so you may need this if you're running it into an amp/device with a sensitive input (i.e., a POD, low watt tube amp, device with harsh clipping, etc.).

User avatar
papercutnoise
Information
Posts: 34
Joined: 20 Aug 2009, 16:32
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by papercutnoise »

wolfmason wrote:
LucifersTrip wrote:...and when I turn the pots to the settings in the demo I don't get anything close.
I think the biggest problem with this one is not how complicated it is, but knowing when it's actually working properly !
Hey Luci, just slapped this badboy on a piece of perf board yesterday using the same schematic as you, and you hit the nail on the head. In short, it's impossible to know what this thing is supposed to do (but I assure you, that schematic is good)

At any given time, it might squeal and feedback, oscillate wildly, create a really insane fuzz, generate square waves, low octaves, high octaves, or it might just sound like a bad OD.

Changing any knob on the box, or on your axe results in a seemingly random, completely unpredictable, tonal 180. As another poster said, none of the knobs do what they claim to. For instance, at some configurations, knob X might result in silence at 0 and 10, feedback at 5, and awesome fuzz at 7. In short, I have no idea how to control it, it's completely unpredictable, and it's totally unusable in a live setting.

That being said, I can't put it down.

Build Hints:

1) I used the MC14149BCP sold by digikey for about 50 cents. Works well. Try flipping the chip around though--One side gave me boring OD, but the other side behaves more like the video. No idea why...

2) If you get it working, you may want to consider attaching a second, independent 500k volume pot (one that dumps to ground) as a "true" output control. This pedal is super loud, and the "volume" control on the schem alters the effect, so you may need this if you're running it into an amp/device with a sensitive input (i.e., a POD, low watt tube amp, device with harsh clipping, etc.).
Thanks for the tips, gonna take another run at this one. Out of interest, did you tie the unused inouts on the IC to ground? Does it affect the sound at all?

User avatar
wolfmason
Information
Posts: 4
Joined: 09 Dec 2009, 01:08

Post by wolfmason »

1st attempt to breadboard it, I had the unused side of the chip attached to an unused portion of the breadboard. For some reason (related or not--but I'm leaning towards "not related"), I couldn't get any sound out of this build.

2nd build attemp, I just left the unused terminals hanging off the edge of the board. While crude, this worked. I wish I knew enough about IC chips to use the other side though. Seems like a waste...But then again, I've already 5 knobs, an on/off switch, a momentary feedback loop switch, and an input capacitance switch hangin' off this thing, as it is. Perhaps that's enough for one box 8)

User avatar
LucifersTrip
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 413
Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 10:39
my favorite amplifier: Companion Psychedelic Machine
Completed builds: Mosrite Fuzzrite (Si), Mosrite Fuzzrite (Ge)[2], Get Lo-Fi Fuzz, Fuzz Face (Ge) [2], Fuzz Face (Si) [3], Mos-Face, Vox Tone Bender, Kay Tremolo, Os Mutantes Fuzz [2], Psychedelic Fuzz, Smokey Amp, Sunn Buzz, Jen Fuzz, Fancy Fuzzbox, Muff Fuzz (op amp) [2], Buzz Box, Fuzz King, Rangemaster [5], Maestro FZ - 2/3, Ruby Amp, Orpheum Fuzz (Ge) [4], Great Destroyer, Schizo, Carlsbro Suzz, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (si), DOD 250 Gray [2], Super Dirt Fuzz, Fuzz Factory, Jordan Boss Tone, Sam Ash Fuzzz Boxx, Heathkit TA-28 Fuzz, Olson New Sound Fuzz, LRE Fuzz Sound, Green Ringer, Vox Super Beatle (Ge), Colorsound One Knob (Ge), Demon Buzzz [2], Demon Wasp v1, Demon Wasp v2, Super Hard-On, Bazz Fuss, Burns Buzzaround [2], Selmer Buzztone, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (Ge), Fuzz Face/FY-2 (Ge), Zonk Machine, Univox Squarewave, Demon Fuzzz, Mosrite Fuzzrite BG-500/1000 (Ge), Univox Superfuzz, Marshall Supa Fuzz, Demon Monster, AA Overdrive/ Retro Fuzz, Tone Bender MKII, Psychtar, Jordan Vica Vibe, etc...
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Contact:

Post by LucifersTrip »

wolfmason wrote: Changing any knob on the box, or on your axe results in a seemingly random, completely unpredictable, tonal 180. As another poster said, none of the knobs do what they claim to. For instance, at some configurations, knob X might result in silence at 0 and 10, feedback at 5, and awesome fuzz at 7. In short, I have no idea how to control it, it's completely unpredictable, and it's totally unusable in a live setting.
The problem is, I can't get ANY really good sounds like in the demo. I know that's it's wild & random, but I did spend a long time tweaking knobs with no cool results. You should be able to get some type of fuzz or octave or weirdness where the background wail disappears, but I can't. The only time I get anything reasonable (a fuzz) is when the volume is very very low...

1) I used the MC14149BCP sold by digikey for about 50 cents. Works well. Try flipping the chip around though--One side gave me boring OD, but the other side behaves more like the video. No idea why...
MC14149BCP? I used the exact chip called for, MC14049BCP. I tried 3 different ones with slight differences, but I have not
tried to flip em. I'll try that...thanx

I'm still leaning towards a mis-wiring on my part, but I re-checked it a ton of times. If I have any breakthroughs, I'll report back.

User avatar
LucifersTrip
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 413
Joined: 06 Aug 2010, 10:39
my favorite amplifier: Companion Psychedelic Machine
Completed builds: Mosrite Fuzzrite (Si), Mosrite Fuzzrite (Ge)[2], Get Lo-Fi Fuzz, Fuzz Face (Ge) [2], Fuzz Face (Si) [3], Mos-Face, Vox Tone Bender, Kay Tremolo, Os Mutantes Fuzz [2], Psychedelic Fuzz, Smokey Amp, Sunn Buzz, Jen Fuzz, Fancy Fuzzbox, Muff Fuzz (op amp) [2], Buzz Box, Fuzz King, Rangemaster [5], Maestro FZ - 2/3, Ruby Amp, Orpheum Fuzz (Ge) [4], Great Destroyer, Schizo, Carlsbro Suzz, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (si), DOD 250 Gray [2], Super Dirt Fuzz, Fuzz Factory, Jordan Boss Tone, Sam Ash Fuzzz Boxx, Heathkit TA-28 Fuzz, Olson New Sound Fuzz, LRE Fuzz Sound, Green Ringer, Vox Super Beatle (Ge), Colorsound One Knob (Ge), Demon Buzzz [2], Demon Wasp v1, Demon Wasp v2, Super Hard-On, Bazz Fuss, Burns Buzzaround [2], Selmer Buzztone, Shin-Ei Companion Fuzz (Ge), Fuzz Face/FY-2 (Ge), Zonk Machine, Univox Squarewave, Demon Fuzzz, Mosrite Fuzzrite BG-500/1000 (Ge), Univox Superfuzz, Marshall Supa Fuzz, Demon Monster, AA Overdrive/ Retro Fuzz, Tone Bender MKII, Psychtar, Jordan Vica Vibe, etc...
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Contact:

Post by LucifersTrip »

papercutnoise wrote: Thanks for the tips, gonna take another run at this one. Out of interest, did you tie the unused inouts on the IC to ground? Does it affect the sound at all?
You mean on the unused side of the ic? I left the hole side on a dead part of the breadboard. I haven't read anything anywhere about grounding the unused inouts. One person totally clipped the pins on one side...

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

i've no idea why i keep coming back to this circuit, as every time i've breadboarded it, it's sounded like puke. but for some reason i was inspired tonight by the talk of using one or other side of the chip. so i made this - the DOUBLE DESTROYER!

Left side of the chip is wired as a normal TGD, input can by bypassed with switch. This feeds switch two, which can churn things up with a second TGD on the right side of the chip. 1/2 or both can be engaged. messy!

The only shortcoming is there's only one starve control. i'll live with that.

not tried it at any great volume yet, as the neighbours young kid is in bed, but roll on tomorrow.

Should be sweet with individual channel footswitches and LEDs.
DoubleDes.jpg
If anyone's interested i'll do a tidy vero/wiring diagram.

User avatar
papercutnoise
Information
Posts: 34
Joined: 20 Aug 2009, 16:32
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by papercutnoise »

poodlebra wrote:i've no idea why i keep coming back to this circuit, as every time i've breadboarded it, it's sounded like puke. but for some reason i was inspired tonight by the talk of using one or other side of the chip. so i made this - the DOUBLE DESTROYER!

Left side of the chip is wired as a normal TGD, input can by bypassed with switch. This feeds switch two, which can churn things up with a second TGD on the right side of the chip. 1/2 or both can be engaged. messy!

The only shortcoming is there's only one starve control. i'll live with that.

not tried it at any great volume yet, as the neighbours young kid is in bed, but roll on tomorrow.

Should be sweet with individual channel footswitches and LEDs.
DoubleDes.jpg
If anyone's interested i'll do a tidy vero/wiring diagram.
Wow can't wait to hear some samples! Definitely interested in a diagram :)

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

i'd totally forgotten about the cap switch idea. might add a switch on each channel to change the caps too. this is becoming a monster.

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

probably doesn't conform to 'best practice', but here's what it is....

layout could be tightened up loads, but seriously, with all those knobs to accommodate it shouldn't make much difference.

youtubes to follow when they've uploaded
Double-D.jpg

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

and some video of said monster. sorry it's quiet and you can hear me cack-handedly thrashing at the strings, but i have the neighbours to consider. side by side with a DeviEver SodaMeiser in chaos mode.

with Duesenberg Starplayer Special (humbuckers):


with Fret King Eclat II (single coil):


this'll be right up there with my heliotrope in the ranks of the 'wtf did i build that for?' parade.

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

oops, "In 2" goes to the left of the cap under the chip.

User avatar
Inferon
Information
Posts: 4
Joined: 07 Nov 2009, 22:08

Post by Inferon »

What values did you use for the components?

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

all as per this schematic:
Image.jpeg
only on the right hand circuit i've just changed the caps to 4.7u so i've a guitar circuit one side, bass the other.

i've now hit the problem of the seemingly simple matter of a master volume. i just can't work out how to do it, or if it's even possible. both sides are wired to 3pdt footswitches in the GGG true bypass with input grounding configuration. i've already drilled the box too, so looks like i'm going to have a spare hole! damn.

User avatar
Inferon
Information
Posts: 4
Joined: 07 Nov 2009, 22:08

Post by Inferon »

Thanks a lot!

User avatar
pbay1129
Information
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 22:29
Has thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by pbay1129 »

I've become intrigued with this pedal since hearing it a few months ago. I breadboarded the circuit, and was initially underwhelmed, but the more I tweaked it, the more I liked it and noticed how many interesting sounds are in there. Kind of like a record or a film that you dont really like at first, but after the second viewing/listening, you're totally hooked.
teej212 wrote:heres the layout for the newer models. schem has changed a bit
teej212's layout is interesting, seems a bit different than the others posted on here. If you look at Aen's photo it matches up with the layout.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638 ... G_0335.jpg

Haven't had a chance to mess wit this layout, but there are some confusing things in there, at least to me. The output of the inverter with the gain pot on it goes to a 10k resistor and then to an output of an inverter on the other side of the chip, and also to a cap which doesn't connect to anything.

Anybody mess with this layout?
Attachments
tgd.bmp
tgd.bmp (194.81 KiB) Viewed 3943 times

User avatar
poodlebra
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 67
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:15
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by poodlebra »

so i finally got round to finishing the double-D. got over the output master volume problem by adding a dual-gang pot on the outputs of each circuit. not a true master volume, as it effects the level of circuit 1's output being fed into circuit 2's input, but it works for me. just adds to the unpredictable craziness this thing unleashes. not sure when i'll ever use it, but it was a fun exercise.
doubleDbox.jpg
doubleDinners.jpg

User avatar
knealebrown
Information
Posts: 2
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 18:56
my favorite amplifier: Fender twin reverb
Completed builds: DS-1 seeing eye mod, TS-9 > 808 spec mod, DD-3 Hi cut mod, TR-2 C4 mod, True bypass box, Standalone JFET buffer, Standalone Op-amp buffer, Orange squeezer, Alembic Stratoblaster.
Location: South Shields/Birmingham, U.K
Contact:

Post by knealebrown »

Hey guys, ive been looking to build this for a while and i pulled apart an old JVC organ the other day. Inside i found a chip labeled TC4049BP would that be suitable for this circuit?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

User avatar
atari
Information
Posts: 1
Joined: 19 Nov 2016, 00:47

Post by atari »

Hello everyone. I am producing The Great Destroyer. However, although there are various circuit diagrams, none of the constants are different and wiring is different.

I made it with the layout of Guitar FX Layouts. There seems to be no problem in operation anyway.
It also oscillates. However, fuzz sound like a movie does not come out.
In the movie, the volume is around 10 o'clock, the maximum gain, the tone 5, the starve maximum (9 v is input)
Although it is a usual fuzz sound, it is not my equipment.

I made my current circuit and wiring as an attached file. I think that this is the wiring of The Great Destroyer's kit, but it seems that one terminal of four pots is not connected. I think it is a meaningful wiring because the wiring comes out from pot. Why is it? (Red ○)

I would like to borrow your thoughts and wisdom.
Attachments
Behind The Great Destroyer kit
Behind The Great Destroyer kit
IMG00406-20111013-2325.jpg (67.94 KiB) Viewed 3277 times
my current circuit
my current circuit

User avatar
Gila_Crisis
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 404
Joined: 01 Jul 2007, 08:37
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 124 times
Contact:

Post by Gila_Crisis »

I got a second hand Great Destroyer, and out of curiosity I opened it: the board is a 2014 revision, with thru hole parts.
Component are: 1 polarity protection diode (1n4148?), caps are all 1uF, and 3 resistors 10k and two 3k3.
Pots: Vol A100k, Starve B2k, Gain B1M, Tone B5k.
IMG_7621.JPG
IMG_7622.JPG
Zwischen Ordnung und Chaos fangt die Musik an

Post Reply