Skinpimp wrote:So J. Fromel If you designed the Circuit board , Who is the brains behind the Product? You or Donner ? Just curious why Donner wasn't able to do this himself. Or are you both taking Credit For it (Collaboration)? I am not "trying" to be an ass, as I know you offer the Lush and a Green Ringer Clone. You also have put some work into both by designing the boards and tailoring sound which I like. I havent seen a Dimension-2 in about 15 years. So somewhat unique offering by you . but why is Donner's First offer only soldered and painted by him. If He is gonna offer a clone the hard part has been done already at least create His own Board layout if not anything else .... What makes this a $222 pedal (thats almost 2 Barber pedals) ? and who does that money go to? are you getting a Kickback For your Time? At least Donner has a Decent Reputation in the Buttkick ...bootsqueak....Buckwheat....BeenDone....Hell i cant even say it anymore!!!..... Nice Box market. and that should get him sales for sure .. Maybe Even you if people know you helped out with it.
Take Care
Oh I dont build the insides.
My local friend and partner JP is a long time pro amp tech and hes building the amp and pedal guts. I just do design, painting and marketing etc,, we design them then he does the inside and I do the outside
We didnt make our own potentiometers or pour our own aluminum boxes or even roll our own diodes lazy us
John Fromel did a great job on the PCBs which speeds things up considerably ..... (making one pedal perfect by hand is one thing - making 100 of the same thing is another...)
Last edited by Donnerbox on 07 Nov 2008, 04:57, edited 1 time in total.
Skinpimp wrote:4MS stuff is way out there cool.. I was browsing there site a while back and started to get the Chainlink fence effect looking at all those knobs.
Yeah they are very cool people too ....
the Spatial is the very bottom entry on thier 'news' section from Feb '07
oh and the price - always hard to know what to charge......
so I took what someone was charging for built BYOC kits plus what I charge for a paintjob plus postal priority insured shipping/paypal and that seemed reasonable considering the difference in quality and versatility.
Skinpimp wrote:So J. Fromel If you designed the Circuit board , Who is the brains behind the Product? You or Donner ? Just curious why Donner wasn't able to do this himself. Or are you both taking Credit For it (Collaboration)? I am not "trying" to be an ass, as I know you offer the Lush and a Green Ringer Clone. You also have put some work into both by designing the boards and tailoring sound which I like. I havent seen a Dimension-2 in about 15 years. So somewhat unique offering by you . but why is Donner's First offer only soldered and painted by him. If He is gonna offer a clone the hard part has been done already at least create His own Board layout if not anything else .... What makes this a $222 pedal (thats almost 2 Barber pedals) ? and who does that money go to? are you getting a Kickback For your Time? At least Donner has a Decent Reputation in the Buttkick ...bootsqueak....Buckwheat....BeenDone....Hell i cant even say it anymore!!!..... Nice Box market. and that should get him sales for sure .. Maybe Even you if people know you helped out with it.
Take Care
Oh I dont build the insides.
My local friend and partner JP is a long time pro amp tech and hes building the amp and pedal guts. I just do design, painting and marketing etc,, we design them then he does the inside and I do the outside
We didnt make our own potentiometers or pour our own aluminum boxes or even roll our own diodes lazy us
John Fromel did a great job on the PCBs which speeds things up considerably ..... (making one pedal perfect by hand is one thing - making 100 of the same thing is another...)
sounds like you gotta whole team of people pulling this one off...thats....well.... neato... are Diodes rolled? I thought it was Capacitors. I am sorry to be a dick here but REALLY???? a Team of people to build a nice Rat Clone... My POV is I really don't care if people make money from clones as long as they are honest( which you have ) I am not one to call one a liar or thief for doing so ( Unless they Have). But I have to give shit where shit is do .. a Team ?? Crew ?? Posse?? Homies?? Assembly Line type groove?? I would've stayed on that Delay... Especially if I had others to work it out with ... Just have fun I guess , thats what it is about anyway.. just an addiction.... "sigh"
Skinpimp wrote:So J. Fromel If you designed the Circuit board , Who is the brains behind the Product? You or Donner ? Just curious why Donner wasn't able to do this himself. Or are you both taking Credit For it (Collaboration)? I am not "trying" to be an ass, as I know you offer the Lush and a Green Ringer Clone. You also have put some work into both by designing the boards and tailoring sound which I like. I havent seen a Dimension-2 in about 15 years. So somewhat unique offering by you . but why is Donner's First offer only soldered and painted by him. If He is gonna offer a clone the hard part has been done already at least create His own Board layout if not anything else .... What makes this a $222 pedal (thats almost 2 Barber pedals) ? and who does that money go to? are you getting a Kickback For your Time? At least Donner has a Decent Reputation in the Buttkick ...bootsqueak....Buckwheat....BeenDone....Hell i cant even say it anymore!!!..... Nice Box market. and that should get him sales for sure .. Maybe Even you if people know you helped out with it.
Take Care
Oh I dont build the insides.
My local friend and partner JP is a long time pro amp tech and hes building the amp and pedal guts. I just do design, painting and marketing etc,, we design them then he does the inside and I do the outside
We didnt make our own potentiometers or pour our own aluminum boxes or even roll our own diodes lazy us
John Fromel did a great job on the PCBs which speeds things up considerably ..... (making one pedal perfect by hand is one thing - making 100 of the same thing is another...)
sounds like you gotta whole team of people pulling this one off...thats....well.... neato... are Diodes rolled? I thought it was Capacitors. I am sorry to be a dick here but REALLY???? a Team of people to build a nice Rat Clone... My POV is I really don't care if people make money from clones as long as they are honest( which you have ) I am not one to call one a liar or thief for doing so ( Unless they Have). But I have to give shit where shit is do .. a Team ?? Crew ?? Posse?? Homies?? Assembly Line type groove?? I would've stayed on that Delay... Especially if I had others to work it out with ... Just have fun I guess , thats what it is about anyway.. just an addiction.... "sigh"
Well again the site is Full Moon Amps and Pedals - the Frat is a drive channel for the amps and really an after thought as a solo pedal - JP and I have started and stopped and restarted an amp company a few times over the last 5 years and we have a few really cool designs that will be out finally,,, and I have a bunch of pedal ideas and designs from years of being a pedal junkie
But I have t he wonderful problem of having way too many friends who are killer circuit jockeys and soldersmiths so I havent needed to go much beyond ideas and tweeking to get the things I want made............. and now Im producing them for sale as I think others will dig them .............. but no Im not trying to pass myself off as a circuit design god or anything
Didn´t you know ?
By joining this forum and downloading one of the traced boutique pedal schematics you have become an active member of the greatly-feared, copyright-violating, internationally acting "Internet Terrorist Association" (ITA) consisting of nearly 3.700 members now.....
Be careful - The IP-Police is everywhere around and already watching this thread with two of their chief-observers.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
ok ok so wait a minute here.... let me take a crack at this... So the "unnamed Partnership/Company" is raising hell about Copyright infrengment on Personaly Drawn schematics, Whether it be a reverse or not.. YET "this builer" is building pedals that are based Soley on other designs. Nothing new or unique at all , just modified better. And then gets pissed to see that the light shined on it ? Then the other partner is defending his Fight to power , by posting links to such Drawings. and Now we are posting in a thread about a pedal that is admitidley a Rat clone by this person/ partner /company.. So WTF?? it is Ok for the " big guys" to modify other peoples shit . but God forbid someone else modify thier product.. Give me a Break... so now we find out that the people on the 2 year wait list are getting bypassed while the builder/ builders are profiting (bigtime) off the inflated used Ebay prices. If so I dont want to hear another fucking word about Morals or ripping someone off coming out of these Guys, you dont have a pot to piss in as far as I am concerned.. I am completly confused about this Whole Ideal of Moral / Cloning/ Copywrite/ It's mine gimme gimme / .....thing that is goin on I wanna know how many KOT4 Havent sold because of this site or the Schematic for 2 TS clones being public knowledge . I bought one about a year and a half ago still got it . But if ya didnt loose me then you have now . Grow up . I would also like to know who is making part for part clones.. oh thats right Nobody ...or wait wait is it everybody ... I dont know I am confused now.. somebody clarify please.. .. I mean how many Fuzz faces are there? a million plus , come on man I dont care if someone gets ass hurt if we see "that" drawing or even draw it. it is still just a FF. modify existing all you want but raising hell about someone knowing what you did is just childish.. but who am "I" ? what am "I" doing? nothing!! so you win...
Do I have it all wrong AG?
Is something that is so simple to let go of , so hard for some.... Most people that know enough about DIY has NO interest in Part for Part Cloning they want the Circuit to modify or tailor to what they like stack ideas etc etc.. In hopes of maybe finding something they can Market if they choose that route.. most just like building stuff.. so this claim that someone is truly getting hurt, other than only their pride ....just doesnt Fly..
I hate to seem like the new asshole , but Pedal guys just take a Beating.. wand what is worse they set themselves up for by creating all this hype .. alot of negative attention required..
I guess I am just young and Dumb.. .....but I should have been in bed a long time ago .. so for that I hate this Forum otherwise I LOVE IT..
Cow4prez wrote:i dig those knobs
The simple non-labelled controls are cool at first but soon you realize it's a pain in the ass to remember which is the volume control so i don't do that anymore.
Yeah Ive wrestled with this as well, and these are still early ones - there may be some additions - but Ive done a few pedals that where silk screened and I eneded up not liking the look in the end - so I sort of vowed if I did a production run with artboxes I would leave the art part as uncovered as possible - its a trade off , and I v e found on some that I bond at a different level with the controls if they arent labeled........... just another choice....
Didn´t you know ?
By joining this forum and downloading one of the traced boutique pedal schematics you have become an active member of the greatly-feared, copyright-violating, internationally acting "Internet Terrorist Association" (ITA) consisting of nearly 3.700 members now.....
Be careful - The IP-Police is everywhere around and already watching this thread with two of their chief-observers.
analogguru
Hi AG,
glad to see we are all Free to talk about what we want now, some things do change ....
Didn´t you know ?
By joining this forum and downloading one of the traced boutique pedal schematics you have become an active member of the greatly-feared, copyright-violating, internationally acting "Internet Terrorist Association" (ITA) consisting of nearly 3.700 members now.....
Be careful - The IP-Police is everywhere around and already watching this thread with two of their chief-observers.
analogguru
Hi AG,
glad to see we are all Free to talk about what we want now, some things do change ....
Yes this place upset some folks early on, me included --- but I do see there is some good/benefit to it and there is little actual damage so ~ good on ya mate
Cow4prez wrote:i dig those knobs
The simple non-labelled controls are cool at first but soon you realize it's a pain in the ass to remember which is the volume control so i don't do that anymore.
Yeah Ive wrestled with this as well, and these are still early ones - there may be some additions - but Ive done a few pedals that where silk screened and I eneded up not liking the look in the end - so I sort of vowed if I did a production run with artboxes I would leave the art part as uncovered as possible - its a trade off , and I v e found on some that I bond at a different level with the controls if they arent labeled........... just another choice....
I dont label most simple pedals because if the control layout is typical of a drive or fuzz, it really isn't necessary. I would rather people become familiar with something I built and get to know it enough that they dont need words to tell them what to tweak.
Cow4prez wrote:i dig those knobs
The simple non-labelled controls are cool at first but soon you realize it's a pain in the ass to remember which is the volume control so i don't do that anymore.
Yeah Ive wrestled with this as well, and these are still early ones - there may be some additions - but Ive done a few pedals that where silk screened and I eneded up not liking the look in the end - so I sort of vowed if I did a production run with artboxes I would leave the art part as uncovered as possible - its a trade off , and I v e found on some that I bond at a different level with the controls if they arent labeled........... just another choice....
I dont label most simple pedals because if the control layout is typical of a drive or fuzz, it really isn't necessary. I would rather people become familiar with something I built and get to know it enough that they dont need words to tell them what to tweak.
Exactly - and some knobs do more than one thing and at different parts of the travel - less signage more exploration ~ might find something interesting
unbeliever wrote:I'm not sure why Donner has been singled out here. Perhaps I should read the old
Didn´t you know ?
By joining this forum and downloading one of the traced boutique pedal schematics you have become an active member of the greatly-feared, copyright-violating, internationally acting "Internet Terrorist Association" (ITA) consisting of nearly 3.700 members now.....
Funny you mention that, as I've put a few people off-side on a local (Australian) forum saying the KOT is based on the Blues Breaker, and one guy still appears to refuse to believe they are related.
I didn't realise 4ms made some pedals with Donner - cool. Dan Green is the man, a true modern day inventor and innovator - and not just in the pedal field.
Funny you mention that, as I've put a few people off-side on a local (Australian) forum saying the KOT is based on the Blues Breaker, and one guy still appears to refuse to believe they are related.
I didn't realise 4ms made some pedals with Donner - cool. Dan Green is the man, a true modern day inventor and innovator - and not just in the pedal field.[/quote]
Yeah Im sure youve seen some of danns circuit bent stuff right
. but why is Donner's First offer only soldered and painted by him. If He is gonna offer a clone the hard part has been done already at least create His own Board layout if not anything else .... What makes this a $222 pedal (thats almost 2 Barber pedals) ? and who does that money go to? are you getting a Kickback For your Time? At least Donner has a Decent Reputation in the Buttkick ...bootsqueak....Buckwheat....BeenDone....Hell i cant even say it anymore!!!..... Nice Box market. and that should get him sales for sure .. Maybe Even you if people know you helped out with it.
![[smilie=drink.gif]](./images/smilies/drink.gif "drink"){kind=small}
sounds like you gotta whole team of people pulling this one off...thats....well.... neato... are Diodes rolled? I thought it was Capacitors. 
I am sorry to be a dick here but REALLY???? a Team of people to build a nice Rat Clone... My POV is I really don't care if people make money from clones as long as they are honest( which you have ) I am not one to call one a liar or thief for doing so ( Unless they Have). But I have to give shit where shit is do .. a Team ?? Crew ?? Posse?? Homies?? Assembly Line type groove?? I would've stayed on that Delay... Especially if I had others to work it out with ... Just have fun I guess , thats what it is about anyway.. just an addiction.... "sigh"
