Skreddy - Mayo

JimiB · Post by **JimiB** » 25 May 2009, 20:27

I'm doing a triple pedal with Zvex Machine, ProCo Rat, and Skreddy Mayo.

whats the order?

80k · Post by **80k** » 25 May 2009, 23:01

JimiB wrote:
I'm doing a triple pedal with Zvex Machine, ProCo Rat, and Skreddy Mayo.
whats the order?

Machine -> Rat -> Mayo.
I have used a Machine, Rat, and Foxey Fuzz for several years, and this is the only order I ever like to use them in, so no need for any fancy switching to reorder them.

Whoismarykelly · Post by **Whoismarykelly** » 08 Jun 2009, 03:41

You could get away with any 2n5133 with 300hfe or over. They dont have to be super high gain but it helps.

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 08 Jun 2009, 04:52

Brilliant banana build!

Yeah, 300hfe on the 2n5133's is fine.

bucksears · Post by **bucksears** » 08 Jun 2009, 20:03

Skreddy wrote:
nokaster wrote:i for one would be very interested in schematics and detailed component list for the ernie and the zero...
if i'm allowed to say so.
Same layout. Transistors are 2N5088 (NOS circa 1980?). All original "triangle knob" specs otherwise, except that the input cap is a .1uf tropical fish, the coupling cap between stage 2 and 3 is also a tropical fish .1 (and there's that 100uf power-supply filter and polarity diode and tbp and led).

All of the 'triangle' schems I've seen from various sites (pisotone, GGG) already have .1uF caps in those spots; is the difference just (other than the 2N5088's and PS 100uF cap/diode) that they're tropical fish caps?
i.e. spec-wise, the Zero is a straight-up 'triangle knob' clone?

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 08 Jun 2009, 23:20

bucksears wrote:
Skreddy wrote:
nokaster wrote:i for one would be very interested in schematics and detailed component list for the ernie and the zero...
if i'm allowed to say so.
Same layout. Transistors are 2N5088 (NOS circa 1980?). All original "triangle knob" specs otherwise, except that the input cap is a .1uf tropical fish, the coupling cap between stage 2 and 3 is also a tropical fish .1 (and there's that 100uf power-supply filter and polarity diode and tbp and led).

All of the 'triangle' schems I've seen from various sites (pisotone, GGG) already have .1uF caps in those spots; is the difference just (other than the 2N5088's and PS 100uF cap/diode) that they're tropical fish caps?
i.e. spec-wise, the Zero is a straight-up 'triangle knob' clone?

Those transistors are super high-gain and aggressive sounding compared to vintage 2N5133's, which are ultra smooth and creamy. The tropical fish change in the input and 2-3 coupling positions add in some needed "roundness" (to offset the transistors' tendency towards trebliness).

But yeah; it's the triangle-knob spec other than that.

80k · Post by **80k** » 09 Jun 2009, 15:47

well, finally finished boxing up the pedal, along with a Zvex Machine and ProCo Rat.

I also made a video of it.

Towards the end you can finally hear the Skreddy Mayo by itself. I think this is my favorite Muff that I've played. Really pleased with the sound. I still plan on playing around with some different transistors but currently enjoying the BC183C and BC239C's.

bucksears · Post by **bucksears** » 10 Jun 2009, 14:38

In a nutshell, regarding transistors:
300-400 hfe = vintage, medium gain?
500+ = high gain?

Order of transistors should generally be highest in Q1, then matched for Q2-Q4?

I know it sounds like overthinking it, but it's a lot to soak in and I'd like to get as close to what you guys are doing as possible.

Thanks,
Buck

SpencerPedals · Post by **SpencerPedals** » 10 Jun 2009, 16:34

That's about right as far as gain is concerned, but I used some 5088's that had the same gain as other current production silicons and they sounded like junk compared to them. Type of transistor made a larger noticeable difference to me than gain. I've heard matched for the clipping Q2 and Q3, and people say highest for Q1 and lowest for Q4, but I didn't hear much of an audible difference when I was swapping things around. It can't hurt, though. My biggest recommendation would be to get 4 of a bunch of different types and use sockets to see what sounds best to you. It's very much personal taste. Unless you have a bunch of the old school high-gain 2n5133's that Skreddy used and others have found...I haven't heard anything bad about those and would say they're a safe bet.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 11 Jun 2009, 00:06

I wonder about the "conventional wisdom" that says the highest gain transistor should go in Q1.
The first stage is more or less a buffer.. it does amplify the signal, but it produces no distortion and the gain of the stage is controlled by the circuit design, so I would think it'd be the least sensitive to transistor gain.

Fuzzer · Post by **Fuzzer** » 12 Jun 2009, 01:51

Dude, the first stage gives like 10 times gain. However, I agree with you, the feedback used also prevents the beta from being significative.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 12 Jun 2009, 04:16

Fuzzer wrote:Dude, the first stage gives like 10 times gain. However, I agree with you, the feedback used also prevents the beta from being significative.

Are you saying you agree that having a high gain transistor in Q1 shouldn't be important, but you don't like my terminology ?

I agree that calling the first stage a "buffer" is not really right.. and I did say that it also amplifies.
.... I'm sure there's a better term I could have used for it... but the point I was making was that that stage doesn't contribute distortion, it's gain is limited, and there's really no reason it should need the highest gain transistor you have available..
Agreed ?

BTW - how did you calculate the gain ?

Fuzzer · Post by **Fuzzer** » 12 Jun 2009, 05:49

Agreed, no problemo.

Regarding the gain calculation, I analyzed the circuit some time ago.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 12 Jun 2009, 08:59

You're right.. thinking about it.. describing it as "buffer'ish" was pretty inaccurate.
It's really a clean gain stage I guess... but the point I was trying to get at was about the transistor requirement...

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 13 Jun 2009, 10:17

haha... look what I just stumbled across on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Muff

"Most versions of the Big Muff use four transistor stages. Two of these act as input and output buffers, and two generate the distortion effect."

Not saying it's right, but at least I'm not the only one to use poor terminology..

bucksears · Post by **bucksears** » 14 Jun 2009, 14:53

Got some 100V .22uF tropical fish caps - will those work for the caps after Q2 and Q3, or do they HAVE to be 63V?
Any affect on the tone if they are 100V?

Thanks,
Buck

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 14 Jun 2009, 18:32

bucksears wrote:Got some 100V .22uF tropical fish caps - will those work for the caps after Q2 and Q3, or do they HAVE to be 63V?
Any affect on the tone if they are 100V?

Thanks,
Buck

The higher the voltage, the more fullness and sparkle the caps'll keep intact. You know how cheap effects sound tinny? Upgrade all the caps to higher voltages, and they'll come alive.

Rocket Roll · Post by **Rocket Roll** » 14 Jun 2009, 19:56

A question regarding transistors, for those who have tried a lot of them in the Muffs - what are advantages and disadvantages of BC109's?

Whoismarykelly · Post by **Whoismarykelly** » 15 Jun 2009, 00:46

Rocket Roll wrote:A question regarding transistors, for those who have tried a lot of them in the Muffs - what are advantages and disadvantages of BC109's?

I made a muff (not a mayo clone) with BC109s and mostly stock values for I think a sovtek version and the sound was warmer and less harsh than 2n5088s.

Electric Warrior · Post by **Electric Warrior** » 29 Jun 2009, 02:14

Krinkle wrote: So the originals used ALL ceramics? Wow, I'll have to try that. Thanks so much for all of the sharing.

Darrin

There's some with electrolytics, too. check this one out: https://cgi.ebay.com/70s-Electro-Harmon ... 1|294%3A50