Rockbox - Boiling Point  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
User avatar
Syder
Information
Posts: 19
Joined: 22 May 2009, 15:56
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Syder »

Pyr0 wrote:
Syder wrote:
hotguit wrote:Hi everybody
Here i attached the layout and the pcb of the Boiling Point
it is BUILT AND VERIFIED. It works perfectly and sounds as it should.
It fit is a small Eddystone enclosure.
Have fun
bye
hot
Hey, I used your layout and I found 2 mistakes, so I don't think yours is sounding as it should, since you have a 0.0022u (2n2) input cap instead of 0.022u (22n) and you also have a wrong connection for the 10k resistor at the feedback of the first opamp. You should replace R5 with a jumper and throw the 10k resistor from the board to lug 2-1 of the gain pot, or simply omit the resistor with no tonal change.
Thanks.
I'm just building one using this layout, so good catch on the input cap.
It doesn't matter what side of the gain pot that 10k resistor is on, it will work the same.
If you check the layout, you'll note that the 10k resistor is placed between pin 2 of the dual opamp and the diodes/gain pot, it's not only limiting the minimum gain. That's the problem, because the diodes aren't directly connected from pin 1 to pin 2, so you get kind of a blended overdrive/clean and it doesn't sound good.

So, do as I said before and you'll get it to work correctly. :)

PS: I'm talking about this layout.

User avatar
Pyr0
Information
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 15:01
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Post by Pyr0 »

My bad Syder :oops: I was just looking at the schematic, but now looking at that layout again I see what you mean. Thanks again.

User avatar
Pyr0
Information
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 15:01
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Post by Pyr0 »

Syder wrote:
hotguit wrote:Hi everybody
Here i attached the layout and the pcb of the Boiling Point
it is BUILT AND VERIFIED. It works perfectly and sounds as it should.
It fit is a small Eddystone enclosure.
Have fun
bye
hot
Hey, I used your layout and I found 2 mistakes, so I don't think yours is sounding as it should, since you have a 0.0022u (2n2) input cap instead of 0.022u (22n) and you also have a wrong connection for the 10k resistor at the feedback of the first opamp. You should replace R5 with a jumper and throw the 10k resistor from the board to lug 2-1 of the gain pot, or simply omit the resistor with no tonal change.
Thanks.
Just another follow up on this. I made the suggested changes leaving out the 10k resistor, but I got massive oscillations at high gain settings, so soldered the 10k from the board to lugs 1,2 and that solved the problem. Cheers Syder :o)
And also shielded cable on input and output helped too.

User avatar
hotguit
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 69
Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 17:55
Location: earth
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by hotguit »

Hi
yes, i posted the rev 1 which is a wrong version
input cap is a 0,022 (type error on layout rev 1) and so for R5
Replace R5 with a jumper and replace the jumper nera R6 with R5
Mine works perfectly and sound as it should
sorry
hot

User avatar
Big_Mike
Information
Posts: 7
Joined: 19 Aug 2010, 22:23
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Big_Mike »

Hi all,

i wanted this one for a long time. so first of all thanks to mostrummer for the schematic. i tried to trace this one from the available images prior to him posting it. of course, i couldnt do it completely, but everything i got (~60%) agrees with his schematic. now i try to do a one sided pcb for easy home production. my experience with eagle is only rudimentary at this point so i came here to ask for some advice. i hope someone can help me.
first i redid mostrummers schematic (its attached)... for practise purpose and to have it in eagle. i used the parts library provided by gaussmarkov on his site. i still have some questions regarding the schematic.
all the capacitators C12, C13, C15, C16, C18 and for the reference voltage C17 seem to be the small yellow/orange ones. can anyone explain to me, why that many and if its important to use them in the place they are? reagarding the potential, one could put all of the first five in parallel to D7 and C10. is it important to put them at the point they are? similary for C11 and C17. couldnt one just connect their ground (in the schematic) and use only one ground reference?
a second thing i wondered is about the correctness of the values. i finally found a high res gut-shot searching via google (attached too, hope that is ok, if not, i will remove it). some values seem to differ slightly, which i dont think is that crucial, but for example the one left to the tone pot for me looks like orange, orange... and if im not mistaken there isnt such a resistor in the schematic. (although this image is supposed to be version 2.0. did you use the old one for the schematic, mostrummer?). can anyone confirm the values or is this the 220 Ohm one, looking different in the image due to light effects. another thing are the diodes. it seems, D4 is different than D1-D3. can anyone confirm or falsify that?
my last questions are also about the aps. what type are the yellow filter caps. i thing the question came up earlier but wasnt answered. for the normal film caps, id like to use the panasonic caps. since they are all available here in germany, id like to ask, if anyone knows, which types are used, polyester, polypropylene, metalized versions? if one builds a clone, why not as exact as possible since availability of the parts is no problem ;)
my others questions are more a call for help regarding the layout and routing of the board. i intend to get a one-sided board that fits into a hammond 1590 typ b enclosure (like the original?). i just did a first layout (board file attached). the idea, counterclockwise, input buffer bottom left, then first stage and feedbackloop top left, second stage with tone control topo right and output buffer bottom left. the auto routing gives me a board with 2 extra wires, i could live with that. my problem now: many of my previous builds where rebuilds like for example the dr boogey. with such pedals, a good routing is extremely important. somewhere i read guidlines like close supply rails , stuff that must not be in proximity etc. my question is, is it necessary to do so here too? i think my current layout, besides not being small enough has many points that can be improved. i hope that someone might have a look at it and give me some advice what to change and perhaps some tricks worth knowing (btw, i also reead the special eagle threads, but im a much better learner with an actual case ;) )

thanks for your help in advance, i know this are alot of questions and some will take time to answer... and since this is my first post thanks to the community in general, i think without this side in particular i might have never started building fxs.
Attachments
bp_image_large.zip
(548.44 KiB) Downloaded 451 times
bp_eaglefiles.zip
(132.29 KiB) Downloaded 292 times

User avatar
Pyr0
Information
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 15:01
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 19 times

Post by Pyr0 »

The small yellow caps are Multi Layer Ceramic caps.
My understanding is they are decoupling caps and help reduce possible oscillations. So they should probably be placed as close to the same components as in the original.

User avatar
full shred
Information
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:20
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by full shred »

Hi guys.
I did a demo of this. My build is based on Haralds layout.
thanks for watching

User avatar
NickKaminski
Information
Posts: 1
Joined: 06 Jun 2013, 03:55

Post by NickKaminski »

So if i understand correctly, if I have a TS i can change a few components to make it into a BP ? what exactly do I have to replace/add to do this?

User avatar
bufferz
Information
Posts: 11
Joined: 01 Apr 2011, 15:58
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by bufferz »

NickKaminski wrote:So if i understand correctly, if I have a TS i can change a few components to make it into a BP ? what exactly do I have to replace/add to do this?
compare the schematic of the boiling point and the TS, note the changes.
If you do not have the ambition to do that, trust me, you don't have the patience to modify your pedal.

User avatar
full shred
Information
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:20
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by full shred »

Hey guys!

I builded this from sabro's layout.
Works fine i just get a huge pop from the footswitch.
I tried a 4.7M at the input tip-ground but nothing.

Is it natural or i should i replace all caps for a current leackage???????

User avatar
pietro_moog
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 113
Joined: 03 Jun 2010, 19:00
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Post by pietro_moog »

have you thought about trying another switch. 95% of the time, in cases like yours, it's a bad switch. 1M as pull down is usually fine.
you cannot fight a bad switch. try to push it more lightly and slowly, but that's it.

User avatar
full shred
Information
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:20
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by full shred »

Thanks pietro...so you think its the switch???

i think all switches work in the same way....one piece of metal on the contacts and there is no slow down to that...its either carrying load or not....

well im not sure but im just saying...could you explain that better?

User avatar
pietro_moog
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 113
Joined: 03 Jun 2010, 19:00
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 50 times

Post by pietro_moog »

i'm not an expert of switches. but in my experience they are the main cause of pop sounds.
on paper, each one of them should be the same as the others, but in reality not everyone is a champ.
some times you find one that pops louder than the rest, and there is no pull down resistor to do the trick (sure they help though).
it's a matter of construction, sometimes the tolerances work together and make a super silent switch, sometimes they work in the wrong way and make an hard-switching super-loud-popping piece. it's bad luck. you can trash it, get use to it, or use it where a loud pop it's not a big matter (i can't think of anything like that right now). you can try to push it with care, with a slight pressure and not loading all your weight on it. i mean, think you are on stage jumping around and you jump on the pedal, that sure is gonna make it pop. but if you gently press it maybe the pop is not that bad, i don't know.

User avatar
full shred
Information
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012, 22:20
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by full shred »

thanks piedro!!! will change the bad switch!!:P

User avatar
franknfurter
Information
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:56
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by franknfurter »

Hey guys, thanks for the awsome work. This is my first build and I have a question regarding the Carbon Composition resistors...
Are they 1/4W, or 1/2W? I ordered the only available CC resistors I found (1/2W) and they are way bigger than the ones
in the original pcb pics (compared to the metal film resistors). After some research I found out that there are 1/4W available,
however it seems they are very rare, or at least I cant find them in any shops in germany.
So can you tell me which ones you used? Thanks for help!
Frank

User avatar
pappasmurfsharem
Information
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 19:50
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times

Post by pappasmurfsharem »

franknfurter wrote:Hey guys, thanks for the awsome work. This is my first build and I have a question regarding the Carbon Composition resistors...
Are they 1/4W, or 1/2W? I ordered the only available CC resistors I found (1/2W) and they are way bigger than the ones
in the original pcb pics (compared to the metal film resistors). After some research I found out that there are 1/4W available,
however it seems they are very rare, or at least I cant find them in any shops in germany.
So can you tell me which ones you used? Thanks for help!
Frank
Generally speaking just get whats available. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between CARBON COMP, METAL FILM, or CARBON FILM.

User avatar
franknfurter
Information
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 22:56
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by franknfurter »

Thx for the reply. Yes, I already noticed there is a controversy about if it makes any differences or not.
And probably you are right and I wouldnt hear any differences. However I am still curious what kind of
resistors those are?

User avatar
pappasmurfsharem
Information
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 19:50
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times

Post by pappasmurfsharem »

franknfurter wrote:Thx for the reply. Yes, I already noticed there is a controversy about if it makes any differences or not.
And probably you are right and I wouldnt hear any differences. However I am still curious what kind of
resistors those are?

1/4W Carbon Comps i'm sure

Like here
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-n ... dp/1265068

Post Reply