JHS Panther Delay

drbob1 · Post by **drbob1** » 24 Nov 2011, 17:29

Gut shot of the prototype. Can't give him too bad a time about the messy wiring on the left side if it's a proto, right? Updating this post, the chips are the Coolaudio 3205s, which seems to me makes this an EHX DMB clone, right? And cool that someone has cloned it, but at 3 times the price because it uses discrete components and not the DMBs SMDs?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=939662

Scruffie · Post by **Scruffie** » 24 Nov 2011, 18:09

3205s a Memory Boy clone do not make.

Infact that doesn't even use 3205s, it uses 4 x 3208s... plus this has a 3102 clock chip, memory boy uses 4047s... etc. etc.

The Deluxe Memory Boy also only has 550ms delay correct? (The DMM With Tap Tempo had 1sec) this has 1sec i'd presume using 4 x 3205s (unless they were over clocked for higher fidelity, which I doubt).

Probably an expanded DM-2/3 of some sort.

There's another thread for this too I beleive.

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 24 Nov 2011, 19:56

What the additional ins and outs are for?

drbob1 · Post by **drbob1** » 24 Nov 2011, 19:57

There's some discussion of the JHS Pink Panther delay on here, it's a PT2399 based design. This is not, so worth a separate thread I think.

The DMB is up to 1.5 seconds if tapped in, 700 msec set by knob. The DMMTT is 1.5 seconds tapped in, 1100 msec set by the knob.

As to the difference between the 3205 and the 3208, the 3208 tolerates higher input voltage, has a higher signal to noise ratio, but does have only 1/2 the delay stages. So, I'd expect the pedal to have lower dynamic overhead and poorer frequency response than the similarly priced DMMTT or the slightly more expensive ML2 but better frequency response at the cost of poorer dynamic overhead to the DMB.

I'm torn. I think producing a tap tempo delay with multiple CV targets is a great accomplishment for a small guy, I just think it's quite expensive for what it's offering.

Additional ins/outs are an effects loop, dry out, CV jack...

culturejam · Post by **culturejam** » 25 Nov 2011, 05:13

Looks like the tap temp circuit is SMD. I see a PIC over on the left side (second photo) with a ton of surface-mount sand around it. Interesting.

drbob1 wrote:So, I'd expect the pedal to have lower dynamic overhead and poorer frequency response than the similarly priced DMMTT or the slightly more expensive ML2 but better frequency response at the cost of poorer dynamic overhead to the DMB.

I really don't care for the 3205's sound, generally. I actually prefer a well-filtered 2399 over the 3205.

coldcraft · Post by **coldcraft** » 26 Nov 2011, 03:57

this is not typical of JHS, so either they're stepping up their game or I should be inclined to believe it was designed by someone new or outside of their operation.

mmolteratx · Post by **mmolteratx** » 26 Nov 2011, 05:03

coldcraft wrote:this is not typical of JHS, so either they're stepping up their game or I should be inclined to believe it was designed by someone new or outside of their operation.

Most likely the latter IMO. The dude went from ripping off Brian's Crunch Box layout to this in a couple months? No way.

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 26 Nov 2011, 14:50

drbob1 wrote: Additional ins/outs are an effects loop, dry out, CV jack...

Awesome, it also can be connected to the internet! See left-down corner

Fucking awesome

madbean · Post by **madbean** » 26 Nov 2011, 15:07

sinner wrote:
drbob1 wrote: Additional ins/outs are an effects loop, dry out, CV jack...

Awesome, it also can be connected to the internet! See left-down corner Fucking awesome

Hahaha.

madbean · Post by **madbean** » 26 Nov 2011, 15:13

Whoa....$500+? Yikes.

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 26 Nov 2011, 15:14

I remember JHS, he was an active member here few years back, I remember his posts. If he was able to design it, then next step for me is to design space station module...

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 26 Nov 2011, 18:28

Too-many-fucking-knobs!

I like cougars way more than panthers anyway!

drbob1 · Post by **drbob1** » 29 Nov 2011, 03:37

So, how hard is it to copy the digital control section of Mike's Amazeo or the DMB? How hard is it to program a PIC? Isn't there instructions over on DIYstomboxes for PIC based digital controller for analog delays? Should we be impressed or is it just more inspired theft?

Barcode · Post by **Barcode** » 29 Nov 2011, 05:07

mmolteratx wrote:
coldcraft wrote:this is not typical of JHS, so either they're stepping up their game or I should be inclined to believe it was designed by someone new or outside of their operation.
Most likely the latter IMO. The dude went from ripping off Brian's Crunch Box layout to this in a couple months? No way.

to be fair, the exemplar unit that showed brian's layout was made in 2010.

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 29 Nov 2011, 07:56

drbob1 wrote:So, how hard is it to copy the digital control section of Mike's Amazeo or the DMB? How hard is it to program a PIC? Isn't there instructions over on DIYstomboxes for PIC based digital controller for analog delays? Should we be impressed or is it just more inspired theft?

Unfair assumption.
The fact that something already exists does not mean that when someone else makes something similar it must be copied from that exixting thing. Instructions for programming PIC's can be found on coultless places on the web and programming delay control, including tap tempo, is a very easy task.

Whalestone · Post by **Whalestone** » 29 Nov 2011, 17:58

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:programming delay control, including tap tempo, is a very easy task.

JHS Pedals seems to suggest otherwise, stating that other tap tempo controlled units on the market fall off the beat (5:22 in [youtube][/youtube]).

Hides-His-Eyes · Post by **Hides-His-Eyes** » 29 Nov 2011, 18:38

I'd bet a PIC would keep time better than most musicians

pz · Post by pz » 29 Nov 2011, 19:13

Whalestone wrote: JHS Pedals seems to suggest otherwise, stating that other tap tempo controlled units on the market fall off the beat (5:22 in [youtube][/youtube]).

Any tap tempo unit will fall off the beat eventually. There's many things that will make it happen after n-cycles, starting from the precision of the tapping, through the necessary debouncing procedures for the tap switch, ending with the time measurement resolution on the MCU. It is not that important in case of delays, because the iterations fade away in time, try their LFO with trem or phaser and i'm sure after some time it will go out of sync.
Looking at the video, the tap tempo calculation is simple, you need only two taps to change the speed. Probably the resolution is insanely high and maybe there are some tricks with switch debouncing and trigger moment detecting. More advanced tap tempo procedures use averaging to calculate the mean tapped period, the more taps you make, the more accurate the tempo is.
Is it easy or complex? It relative. For someone familiar with MCU programming it is rather a trivial task.
The only one method that will keep you always synchronized is to periodically or constantly update the tempo from a clock source, like MIDI clock etc.

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 29 Nov 2011, 21:13

Whalestone wrote:
Dirk_Hendrik wrote:programming delay control, including tap tempo, is a very easy task.
JHS Pedals seems to suggest otherwise, stating that other tap tempo controlled units on the market fall off the beat (5:22 in [youtube][/youtube]).

uhuh,...
But explain that

. They, the JHS guys, don't. They just state that and talk on.
Unless this device is able to analyse the beat of the material played (which I doubt for obvious reasons) they just make a statement without any explanation or even a suggestion which "other TT controlled units" they refer to. There's little TT controlled analog delays on the market and I'm not aware of any that have "falling off the beat" as a complaint. A completely empty and unfounded phrase.

Preps it is time to write a Tapempo for Madbeans Dirtbag. AVR based though. As an assembly coder who started on 8051 assembly I never liked PIC's.

J0K3RX · Post by **J0K3RX** » 29 Nov 2011, 21:29

A little off topic from the delay but looks like JHS is collaborating with Jet City Amplification... I wonder if I could request a custom made original madbean-el griton? Can't really shake that one out of my mind!?

http://www.jetcityamplification.com/201 ... overdrive/