BJF - Honey Bee Overdrive degooped [traced]
- aegert
- Solder Soldier
SO I built up the Madbean project. The only issue is that the overall output volume is below unity. I check out demo's of the Bearfoot and BJFE on you tube and this seams not to be an issue at all. I think others have seen this before. I have a 2n5457 in output buffer with a 5.6k Bias resistor..
Has anybody messed with this and or a bypass cap on the 2.2k to ground?
Would love to here some input and increase in volume.
Just a a sanity check here are some voltages:
IC1
1: few 100'ths of a V
2: 4.09V
3: 3.9V
4: few 100'ths of a V
5: few 100'ths of a V
6: 4.1V ( should this be closer to the supply voltage?)
7: 8.2V
8: 4.3V
Q1
1: Drain: 5.3V
2: Source 1.1V
3: Gate 0V
Any Ideas would be greatly depreciated
A
Has anybody messed with this and or a bypass cap on the 2.2k to ground?
Would love to here some input and increase in volume.
Just a a sanity check here are some voltages:
IC1
1: few 100'ths of a V
2: 4.09V
3: 3.9V
4: few 100'ths of a V
5: few 100'ths of a V
6: 4.1V ( should this be closer to the supply voltage?)
7: 8.2V
8: 4.3V
Q1
1: Drain: 5.3V
2: Source 1.1V
3: Gate 0V
Any Ideas would be greatly depreciated
A
- aegert
- Solder Soldier
i swapped out q1 for one that biased to about 4.9v and it was a small bit better but looking at the videos there seams to be a bunch more volume out of the Vol pot. Unity was below 10:00... I have to dime the vol knob to even get slightly close.
The eq of the pedal is slightly dark. I would bet this accounts for some of the perceived volume decrease. I read on the forums about some changes to c10 or c9. I am sure I change the filtering to move the knee a pit more north it will pick up some volume. Has anybody solidified a good value.
I recently built another project and it turned out after I got nutz that it wasn't doing the trick. So...my OCD made m buy the real one and de bug it. There was a difference between the verified schem and the real pedal. I posted my findings.. I can smell me getting stupid again.. I just don't want to spend $300+ to figure it out ROFL..
The pedal plays well. any thoughts would be killer
Lastly what version of the CA3130 is everyone using. I have EX, AE and EZ...
a
The eq of the pedal is slightly dark. I would bet this accounts for some of the perceived volume decrease. I read on the forums about some changes to c10 or c9. I am sure I change the filtering to move the knee a pit more north it will pick up some volume. Has anybody solidified a good value.
I recently built another project and it turned out after I got nutz that it wasn't doing the trick. So...my OCD made m buy the real one and de bug it. There was a difference between the verified schem and the real pedal. I posted my findings.. I can smell me getting stupid again.. I just don't want to spend $300+ to figure it out ROFL..
The pedal plays well. any thoughts would be killer
Lastly what version of the CA3130 is everyone using. I have EX, AE and EZ...
a
- rousejeremy
- Breadboard Brother
Information
Built this using Mikes vero. It's a pretty tight fit in a 1590b, possibly just the vero I was using.
- rousejeremy
- Breadboard Brother
Information
A better shot of the finish
And a gutshot of the vero that just fit.
And a gutshot of the vero that just fit.
- Barcode
- Diode Debunker
Did this ever get solved? I'm setting the exact same behavior from two separate yellow shark builds on madbean boards. bothare exhibiting that weird low freq oscillation at the top of the drive, and the volume does this weird thing where at minimum, it has audible signal, which gets lower as I turn up, but then "pivots" and starts going up again. the only thing that seems to work is the nature knob. Thoughts?velsa61 wrote:What did i do wrong......some extra eyes might help on this one!!!!!
What it does ,is some sort of strange low frequency "broooom" and when i twist that drive knob from 3 o'clock to all the way up, it disappears but so does the original signal....???
I tried with 3 different 3130's.....same story!!!
(i also tried with TLO 72c & RC&JRC 4558's but nothing came through.....dead silence!!!!)
I marked the photo of the solder side vero with red circle where i managed to tear off some copper but i don't think means a thing coz the leg of the op is still connected!!!!
Here's a photo of it.......
https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336 ... weetOd.jpg
- gigelmargel
- Resistor Ronker
Hello all!
I've just finished a clone of Honey Bee using Madbean's Yellow Shark 2.5 layout (thanks for it, Madbean!), but it sounds strange.
The decay of the notes it's abrupt...it sounds gated, with a little sustain...I used a CA3130EZ and a CA3140, with the same result...I tried 2 red 3mm LEDs and 2 green 5mm LEDs, but the same sound...I've rechecked all and it's seems to be OK...one LED lights all the time at some settings of the gain pot and the second lights following the notes...at another settings, both of them lights the same...
Anyone have the same problem? Any ideea to help me?
Thank you very much!
I've just finished a clone of Honey Bee using Madbean's Yellow Shark 2.5 layout (thanks for it, Madbean!), but it sounds strange.
The decay of the notes it's abrupt...it sounds gated, with a little sustain...I used a CA3130EZ and a CA3140, with the same result...I tried 2 red 3mm LEDs and 2 green 5mm LEDs, but the same sound...I've rechecked all and it's seems to be OK...one LED lights all the time at some settings of the gain pot and the second lights following the notes...at another settings, both of them lights the same...
Anyone have the same problem? Any ideea to help me?
Thank you very much!
- gigelmargel
- Resistor Ronker
- TheLemon
- Breadboard Brother
The LEDs should be lighting at the same time, all the time. You might have the LEDs going both the same way. Try flipping on of them around. Also check to see you used the right value resistors, and everything is connected right.
- gigelmargel
- Resistor Ronker
Thank you TheLemon for your advice!TheLemon wrote:The LEDs should be lighting at the same time, all the time. You might have the LEDs going both the same way. Try flipping on of them around. Also check to see you used the right value resistors, and everything is connected right.
I recheck all and, of course, it seems to be OK
I made some mods to it (as in the Barefoot version) and LEDs lights in the same way, but the overdrive is gone (now it's more like a clean booster), so I will try to modify it back
Anyway, I saw on Madbean's Forum and in the user manual of BJFE that the pots doesn't act liniary and the pedal doesn't have much sustain, so, maybe, the first version was a good one...but the problem is that it didn't sound as in the demos...
- biliousfrog
- Resistor Ronker
Information
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- Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 13:29
- Completed builds: Zen Drive, Fuzz Factory, Really Cheap Compressor, D*A*M 66, Klon Buffer, CryBaby mods, Boss TR2 mods, Various loops and switchers, DOD250, Fulltone Bass Drive, MXR Bluebox mods
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I've built the Honey Bee according to IvIark's vero layout and I'm having problems with it.
I've found that using green LED's caused gated, fuzzy, pulsing distortion - anything higher (such as blue) made it unplayable. I put the red LED's in and it behaved OK but squeals and gets fuzzy at higher drive settings. With the drive backed off a little it actually sounded quite nice (through my 5w H&K Tubemeister amp). I took it to rehearsal last night and it sounded gated, fuzzy and oscillating (through Laney LC30) - completely unplayable.
If I take the LED's out it works ok - through the H&K it barely sounds any different, through the LC30 it loses most of the clipping (obviously).
I'm a bit stumped by what is causing this. I've changed the IC and the transistor. One of the 1N4001 diodes (1N4007 replacements) came from a different supplier so I could replace that to ensure that they're all equal (or thereabouts). I didn't check the Hfe of the 2N5952 - would that make a difference?
I've found that using green LED's caused gated, fuzzy, pulsing distortion - anything higher (such as blue) made it unplayable. I put the red LED's in and it behaved OK but squeals and gets fuzzy at higher drive settings. With the drive backed off a little it actually sounded quite nice (through my 5w H&K Tubemeister amp). I took it to rehearsal last night and it sounded gated, fuzzy and oscillating (through Laney LC30) - completely unplayable.
If I take the LED's out it works ok - through the H&K it barely sounds any different, through the LC30 it loses most of the clipping (obviously).
I'm a bit stumped by what is causing this. I've changed the IC and the transistor. One of the 1N4001 diodes (1N4007 replacements) came from a different supplier so I could replace that to ensure that they're all equal (or thereabouts). I didn't check the Hfe of the 2N5952 - would that make a difference?
- biliousfrog
- Resistor Ronker
Information
- Posts: 341
- Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 13:29
- Completed builds: Zen Drive, Fuzz Factory, Really Cheap Compressor, D*A*M 66, Klon Buffer, CryBaby mods, Boss TR2 mods, Various loops and switchers, DOD250, Fulltone Bass Drive, MXR Bluebox mods
- Location: Lowestoft - UK
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
- Contact:
If I use just one, green, LED I can play it like a theramin...the drive and nature controls change the sound and I can change the pitch by moving closer to the LED...It's quite cool actually.
- biliousfrog
- Resistor Ronker
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- Posts: 341
- Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 13:29
- Completed builds: Zen Drive, Fuzz Factory, Really Cheap Compressor, D*A*M 66, Klon Buffer, CryBaby mods, Boss TR2 mods, Various loops and switchers, DOD250, Fulltone Bass Drive, MXR Bluebox mods
- Location: Lowestoft - UK
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Fixed!
I notice that there's a separate thread for the bearfoot one so sorry for that.
I replaced almost every component...then spotted the 100pf cap on the vero that I'd missed off the board, DOH!
Finally works although I'm unsure of the nature knob should clean up the signal when increased? I actually preferred how it worked before - minus the squeals and gated fuzz.
I notice that there's a separate thread for the bearfoot one so sorry for that.
I replaced almost every component...then spotted the 100pf cap on the vero that I'd missed off the board, DOH!
Finally works although I'm unsure of the nature knob should clean up the signal when increased? I actually preferred how it worked before - minus the squeals and gated fuzz.
- modman
- a d m i n
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I finally found the pictures that were lost in 2010 - re-uploaded in the first few posts...
Not all of them, but most...
Not all of them, but most...
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- aion
- Solder Soldier
Information
I revisited the Honey Bee circuit recently for an updated PCB design and fell down the rabbit hole a bit. In studying the One Control version that was traced a few years ago, the Moody Sounds kit version designed by Bjorn, and the Blueberry bass variant, I started to get a feeling that we may have made some mistakes in the original Honey Bee trace since none of the subsequently-traced variants have had the particular qualities of the final schematic from this thread (the Yellow Shark V2).
I came up with an annotated schematic that includes details on the different part variants used in all known versions of the Honey Bee. I ended up poring through this thread in particular trying to recreate the details of the original trace. My conclusion is that there was an incorrect merge of two variants that were different from each other, and that the final schematic doesn't represent either of them exactly.
I included all the details in a blog post, so I won't get into the weeds so much here, but briefly, the major difference is that Nature control should connect either to the Q1 source via a 220n capacitor OR to volume lug 3 via a 4n7 capacitor. Both schemes were used in real units. But, the finalized schematic from this thread shows it connecting to Q1 source via a 4n7 capacitor, which many people noted is too subtle to really do much.
Also the second feedback resistor should be 147k, but is labeled 47k in the Yellow Shark V2. These errors have spread to many DIY versions of the project, including Tagboard and Effects Layouts as well as my Procyon PCB.
I am definitely open to feedback on this since I wasn't involved in the original trace, I'm just doing forensic work many years after the fact. But if anyone wants to chime in with additional info then I'll make sure to incorporate it into my conclusions.
Here's the annotated schematic:
Tracing journal:
https://aionfx.com/news/revisiting-the- ... fsb-trace/
Updated PCB:
https://aionfx.com/project/procyon-natural-overdrive/
I came up with an annotated schematic that includes details on the different part variants used in all known versions of the Honey Bee. I ended up poring through this thread in particular trying to recreate the details of the original trace. My conclusion is that there was an incorrect merge of two variants that were different from each other, and that the final schematic doesn't represent either of them exactly.
I included all the details in a blog post, so I won't get into the weeds so much here, but briefly, the major difference is that Nature control should connect either to the Q1 source via a 220n capacitor OR to volume lug 3 via a 4n7 capacitor. Both schemes were used in real units. But, the finalized schematic from this thread shows it connecting to Q1 source via a 4n7 capacitor, which many people noted is too subtle to really do much.
Also the second feedback resistor should be 147k, but is labeled 47k in the Yellow Shark V2. These errors have spread to many DIY versions of the project, including Tagboard and Effects Layouts as well as my Procyon PCB.
I am definitely open to feedback on this since I wasn't involved in the original trace, I'm just doing forensic work many years after the fact. But if anyone wants to chime in with additional info then I'll make sure to incorporate it into my conclusions.
Here's the annotated schematic:
Tracing journal:
https://aionfx.com/news/revisiting-the- ... fsb-trace/
Updated PCB:
https://aionfx.com/project/procyon-natural-overdrive/