Analogman - Sun Face (Sunface)  [traced]

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MoonWatcher
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Post by MoonWatcher »

BAARON wrote:Elementary, dear Watson: C3 and the output pot form a high-pass filter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pass_filter

Making that cap smaller will send more bass from the output to the ground. Making it bigger will allow more of the bass to get to your amplifer.
Yeah, but it's kind of a "push" because it is used in conjunction with a smaller pot on the output.

High pass filters with output at max:

10nF/250K - 64 Hz

100nF/100K - 16 Hz

...Not really a big difference - the Sunface just has a little more sub-sonic (for the purposes of guitar) range.

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Post by BAARON »

For first-order high-pass filters, frequency rolloff begins at about 10x the -3 dB corner because it's a gradual rolloff, not a sudden sharp corner. The corner frequency just tells you what point the rolloff becomes constant at -6 dB per octave. A 64 Hz corner starts to have its effect up at about 640 Hz. It's subtle, but it's happening. Moving that corner down to 16 Hz gets that starting rolloff out of the way 2 octaves lower.

Changing to that 100nF cap still has an audible effect, even with the smaller pot. Subtle but audible.

http://www.play-hookey.com/ac_theory/hi ... lters.html See first graph for example.

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Post by beedotman »

Ge PNP version, without pre gain trimpot, but with 47uF filtering cap.
[smilie=a_fro.gif]
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sun_face.png

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JVanDe7
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Post by JVanDe7 »

I've decided that I don't like the germanium fuzz face circuit. Too rounded or smooth or something. Maybe I haven't tuned it properly? I built a Fulltone '69 clone years ago that never really tripped my trigger. And same with this Sun Face clone. Neat pedal but I much prefer the sound of my Fulltone '70 clone. Maybe I'm just a silicon guy when it comes to FF?

I really REALLY dig the tone bender circuit. I'm a huge fan of the rangemaster circuit. So I know I like germanium. It just never did it for me in the FF circuit.

Anyone have any ideas about tweaking/tuning, or will I probably never like a Ge FF if I don't now?

Here is the best example I can find of what I would want a Ge fuzz face to sound like, but even this is not really all that great to me. But it does show the most appealing Ge FF I've found yet.
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Post by JVanDe7 »

I socketed the transistors... so I'm thinking I might make this a hybrid.
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Post by phibes »

Try Vox Tone Bender values.

Fuzz Faces can be dramatically different between amps. My Hiwatt loves em, my Fenders not so much.
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Post by JVanDe7 »

Removed the 91 hFe PNP Ge transistor I had in Q1 and replaced it with a 193 hFe 2N3906 PNP Si I had laying around.
Big improvement (for what I personally want to hear). It gives it a slightly harsher silicon edge but without going fully harsh/silicon sounding.
It cleans up real nice with your guitar's volume knob too. Have to have the amp set just right and the fuzz cranked on the sun face, then dial back the volume knob just until the fiz suddenly stops - that's where I like it. A dynamic dirt that can sound overdriven when you play gentle and then get nasty when you dig in.

BTW, I think I'll call this hybrid variation the "Partly Sunny Face" :lol:
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Post by Seiche »

did a little perf layout that looks a little similar to the original pcb. One with and one without sundial.

I like the way the transistors lie down on the board :block:
I didn't like the way the 10nf/47nf cap is arranged so i changed that for a cleaner look.
Sunface_Workalike_Perf.png

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Post by pedalfreakFX »

Where does the volume hook up to in this layout? I'd like to build this, but confused about where the volume pot hooks up at?

Thanks
Seiche wrote:did a little perf layout that looks a little similar to the original pcb. One with and one without sundial.

I like the way the transistors lie down on the board :block:
I didn't like the way the 10nf/47nf cap is arranged so i changed that for a cleaner look.
Sunface_Workalike_Perf.png

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Post by IvIark »

OUT goes to Volume 3, Volume 2 is the output to the stomp, Volume 1 to ground
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Post by kaycee »

phibes wrote:Try Vox Tone Bender values.
Yep, that's my fav FF variant, try a low gain in q1 say 60 to 90.

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Post by jalmonsalmon »

I just made this one from one of IvIarks layouts using a couple of nkt275s Q1 hFE 59 and Q2 hFE 61 both low leakage and this thing sounds AWESOME :applause:
And for such low hFE transistors, this thing FUZZES great!

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Post by beedotman »

Here are pics of very old Sun Face - 86 and 124 markings on transistors.
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old_sun_face.jpg
old_fuzz_face_0.jpg

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Post by sinner »

beedotman wrote:Ge PNP version, without pre gain trimpot, but with 47uF filtering cap.
[smilie=a_fro.gif]

B.man, you sure this layout is ok?

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Post by beedotman »

IMO yes, did You see anything wrong here? I think I build at least one pedal using this layout, and was working fine...

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Post by sinner »

beedotman wrote:IMO yes, did You see anything wrong here? I think I build at least one pedal using this layout, and was working fine...
Outside trimmer legs are shorting, no?

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Post by beedotman »

sinner wrote:
beedotman wrote:IMO yes, did You see anything wrong here? I think I build at least one pedal using this layout, and was working fine...
Outside trimmer legs are shorting, no?
You need to bend or cut right leg of trimpot. On layout I tried to show it as bended leg under trimpot - there's no jumper, just this bended leg :P

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Post by beedotman »

...or You can just put a cut between two bottom legs of trimpot.
I didn't draw it on this layout because in this way you can put small cap between B and C on Q2 on right side of trimpot, just in case if You want...

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Post by sinner »

Oh, I get it now :)

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Post by beedotman »

Here's one of more recent SunFaces with 100nF output cap.
Blue boards looks cool!
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sunface.JPG

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