Anyone interesting in order good Butler PCBs?

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 03:11

I love the Butler tube driver, but I'm NOT paying that much for something with crap parts! So I'm playing with the idea of getting some PCBs made to hold things like Orange Drop caps and RN60 resistors. (I'm a Vishay fan, what can I say?) The more people I can get to order, the cheaper it'll be. So I hope there's interest in getting some PCBs made for a mojoized Butler!

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 07 Sep 2010, 03:15

I'd be interested. Those things are gonna be huge if you plan on mojo parts though!

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 07 Sep 2010, 05:14

just maybe those "crap parts" are what gives the B K Butler pedal it's sound that you like

by all means - go ahead - don't let anyone stop you - design a PCB - build a prototype and put up sound clips if you like - I am sure there will be many freestompbox members interested in a "super mojo butler tubedriver"

THEN

This would be the time to see if anyone is interested investing in boards - see the freestompbox thread on the Aqua Puss analog delay elsewhere for a better understanding of how this place works

Cheers and happy building - don't forget to show your build pictures

bajaman

DrNomis · Post by **DrNomis** » 07 Sep 2010, 15:59

Hi,for what it's worth,I'm actually a bit skeptical that there is any "mojo" in certain electronic parts,I have been into electronics since I was 13 years old,successfully built quite a few things,resistors are available in quite a few different types,from carbon composition,to metal film,to very small surface mount,their main use in a circuit is to control the amount of current flow,they have a characteristic called "tolerance" because no one resistor can be made exact in value,they are made within a certain plus or minus percentage of the marked value,this can range from +/- 1% for metal film,to +/- 20% for carbon composition types,the same goes for capacitors too,only the widest tolerance is about +/- 10%,carbon composition resistors tend to make a hissy noise when used in circuits,particularly when they age,they also go high in value when they age too,I believe that an electronic component's characteristics only come into play when the component has aged,or when it is being stressed by operating at elevated voltages.

Transistors exhibit noise,actually all semiconductors,silicon based,and germanium based,exhibit noise,but Germanium transistors are the biggest offenders,if a component does seem to have some kind of "mojo",I think it is purely aesthetic....

Vacuum Tube technology also exhibits noise too.....

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 16:29

I don't so much believe in the "vintage mojo" factor. For instance, I don't plan on using carbon comps, I'm going to use metal film. The main thing I'm doing is choosing parts for longevity and tolerance.

Anyways, on the subject of prototyping boards, I've never done a layout, but I have some basic idea of how they work (keeping track capacitance down, making leads from caps, ICs and tubes as short as possible, basic stuff). I'm also on a mac and good layout software doesn't exist. So does anyone have any more tips for layouts? I'm thinking I'll just grab a set of parts and my calipers and go from there with a sheet of graph paper. Should I prototype it on perf board? I don't have a laser printer, sadly, so etching isn't really practical for me.

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 16:34

Turns out good software does exist! On this very forum!

DrNomis · Post by **DrNomis** » 07 Sep 2010, 17:32

I'm actually not set up for etching circuit boards,so I tend to use Vero/Stripboard alot,I do all my Vero/Stripboard layouts the old-fashioned way,pencil and graph-paper,works great for me....

When you design your layouts,try using the schematic as a guide,doing a rough drawing on paper helps too,especially if you work in groups of components,try to keep outputs as far away from inputs as physically possible,this stops the circuit from oscillating at very high frequencies,make sure you put good bypassing on supply rails too,this stops the circuit from motor-boating,this is a tendency for the circuit to oscillate at low frequencies,this is assuming that you're building gain-based effects pedals...

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 18:20

Wow I'm a noobie, what is a rail bypass? Damnit I've built robots! I should know this! Anyways, couple questions, firstly, I plan to use film caps for anything that isn't the power supply, I found the tiny pF film caps, but the Orange Drops I was eyeing are massive! What you do you lot recommend for film caps? Something fairly small please! Here's a draft of the BOM, if anyone has suggestions for the parts I don't have worked out or other versions of parts I do have, please lemmy know!

YuGi · Post by **YuGi** » 07 Sep 2010, 20:32

Cymbal Monkey wrote:Wow I'm a noobie, what is a rail bypass? Damnit I've built robots! I should know this! Anyways, couple questions, firstly, I plan to use film caps for anything that isn't the power supply, I found the tiny pF film caps, but the Orange Drops I was eyeing are massive! What you do you lot recommend for film caps? Something fairly small please!

Sorry but there is something I do not understand: by what you write seems you are a beginner in the design and manufacture of PCBs, but you open topic "Anyone interesting in order GOOD Butler PCBs? Have you noticed that this forum have already a great Butler PCB (thanks Baja)? If I have to buy it, I prefer to order it from Bajaman..

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 21:11

By good I meant using high quality parts and getting them professionally made. I'm going to do perf prototypes, and then we'll set up orders.

Cymbal Monkey · Post by **Cymbal Monkey** » 07 Sep 2010, 21:15

Baha's schematics and layouts are the basis of this project. Without him, I'd have nothing to go off of. I just like working with well made PCBs with through plating and solder masking.

DrNomis · Post by **DrNomis** » 25 Sep 2010, 04:40

New postby Cymbal Monkey » 07 Sep 2010, 20:20
Wow I'm a noobie, what is a rail bypass? Damnit I've built robots! I should know this! Anyways, couple questions, firstly, I plan to use film caps for anything that isn't the power supply, I found the tiny pF film caps, but the Orange Drops I was eyeing are massive! What you do you lot recommend for film caps? Something fairly small please! Here's a draft of the BOM, if anyone has suggestions for the parts I don't have worked out or other versions of parts I do have, please lemmy know!

Okay,when electronics techs service a piece of electronic equipment,there's a term that they often use..."Supply Rail",this refers to the various power supply sources that a circuit needs to operate,for example... +15V....,a rail bypass is simply a suitably sized electrolytic capacitor,connected from the rail to circuit ground,this is done to stop noise on the supply rails from upsetting the operation of a circuit,in audio amplifiers,this is done to stop a condition called Motor-Boating from occurring,motor-boating is a low-frequency putt-putt sound that is heard when the amplifier is powered on,but not amplifying an input signal,this is caused by noise on the supply rails being injected into the amps input,being amplified,and then superimposed on the supply rail,where it is injected back into the amps input again,etc,etc,the amplifier's supply rail forms part of a positive feedback loop,and,instead of being just an audio amplifier,it becomes a very powerful audio oscillator....something to avoid like the plague,connecting a capacitor from a supply rail to ground effectively shunts any noise on the supply rail to ground,thus bypassing the supply rail.....

Typical values of electrolytic capacitors for supply rail bypassing range from about 1uF to as high as 1 Farad(in car stereo sound systems).....

For digital circuits typical values for rail bypass capacitors range from about 10nF to say 100nF......

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 25 Sep 2010, 05:26

Cymbal Monkey wrote: Anyways, on the subject of prototyping boards, I've never done a layout, but I have some basic idea of how they work (keeping track capacitance down, making leads from caps, ICs and tubes as short as possible, basic stuff). I'm also on a mac and good layout software doesn't exist. So does anyone have any more tips for layouts? I'm thinking I'll just grab a set of parts and my calipers and go from there with a sheet of graph paper. Should I prototype it on perf board? I don't have a laser printer, sadly, so etching isn't really practical for me.

how are you going to get pro boards made? send them your graph paper?

try Eagle. it works great on a mac. there is lots of info here on the program.

DrNomis · Post by **DrNomis** » 25 Sep 2010, 12:49

by RnFR » Today, 07:26

Cymbal Monkey wrote:Anyways, on the subject of prototyping boards, I've never done a layout, but I have some basic idea of how they work (keeping track capacitance down, making leads from caps, ICs and tubes as short as possible, basic stuff). I'm also on a mac and good layout software doesn't exist. So does anyone have any more tips for layouts? I'm thinking I'll just grab a set of parts and my calipers and go from there with a sheet of graph paper. Should I prototype it on perf board? I don't have a laser printer, sadly, so etching isn't really practical for me.

how are you going to get pro boards made? send them your graph paper?

try Eagle. it works great on a mac. there is lots of info here on the program.

Since I'm not currently set up to etch my own circuit boards,the best alternative I have found so far is to build the circuit on Vero/Stripboard,yes it does involve a bit of extra work in laying out the parts,but it is a method that works for me,before I build the circuit,I use a pencil,eraser,and some 5mm square graph paper,to work out a suitable layout for the part,I could use software to do it,but I haven't found anything that works for me.....

After I've come up with a layout,I cut the Vero/Stripboard to size,then I tin all the copper strips (coat them with solder),then I get rid of all the excess solder from the copper strips,this is to stop the copper from corroding away,it also makes soldering easier...

Once that's done,I use a sharpie pen to put a dot on the non-copper-strip side of the board,at each position where a component lead goes through the board holes....

Then I put all the components on the board,starting with links using tinned copper wire,then PCB pins,resistors,capacitors,diodes,and finally semiconductors....

Once that's done,I turn the board over,and use the sharpie pen to mark where all the strip breaks are made,then i use a 3mm drill bit in a pin vice to make the strip breaks.....

Once that's done,I check for any mistakes,once I'm satisfied that everything is correct,I make the board mounting holes....

And then I have a finished board,ready to be put into a case.....

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 27 Sep 2010, 00:48

that's great. but the OP isn't talking about using strip board. he's talking about getting PCBs made from a manufacturer.

DrNomis · Post by **DrNomis** » 27 Sep 2010, 01:07

That is a good point you made there rnfr...