freestompboxes.org

RnFR wrote:

Greg_G wrote:Don't stress guys.. I DID just buy it.
I figured it wouldn't sit there while we worked out a way to group buy it.
It's appears to be all original, and it sounds better than i could have hoped for.. All will be revealed in due course..

can you tell i'm happy?


dude, that is the bees knees!

Yep, you never know what you're gonna get when you buy something like this, but I was over the moon when I heard it.
The Boost side is not worth bothering with IMO.
It may have been useful when these were built and there weren't so many Boosts around, but it's a tone killer.
The Fuzz is awesome. Strong with Tonebender like sustain.. but it's less woofy and more articulate... you can hear the notes

Any news?

Yes.

Schematic isn't finalised yet, but it turns out it's basically a Vox Suppa ToneBender clone..

wow........

didn't expected that!

Me either.

I've never built or heard the Vox circuit, and just happened to look at a schematic of it while I was tracing this... coincidence only.

The circuit and pretty much all the values are the same.. the only variation is with one pair of clipping diodes, and was possibly a mistake that was made when the Vox was traced i'd say.

The Japanese were certainly prolific copiers around that time ..

Greg_G wrote:Yes.

Schematic isn't finalised yet, but it turns out it's basically a Vox Suppa ToneBender clone..

THERE NEVER EXISTED A VOX SUPPA TONE BENDER !
It was the Colorsound Supa Tonebender which appeared much later than the Ace-Tone stuff. To put the history in the correct light:
"....it turns out it's basically an EH Big Muff Pi clone ..."

....the only variation is with one pair of clipping diodes, and was possibly a mistake that was made when the Vox was traced i'd say.

The Japanese were certainly prolific copiers around that time ..

And Colorsound was even better copying japanese and other stuff:
The Octivider was "stolen" from Shin-ei (OB-28).
The Supa Sustain was "stolen" from Roland (AS-2).
And probably the Supa Tonebender was "stolen" from the FM-3 (which itself appears to be copied from the EH big muff Pi).

Fact is that the Colorsound Supa Tonebender appeared on the market long time later than Roland was founded in 1972 by Ikutaro Kakehashi. It is common knowledge that Ace Tone was the predecessor to Roland.

analogguru

An interesting history lesson analogguru.. thanks.

I knew that AceTone preceded Roland.. apparently Ikutaro Kakehashi wanted to change the name when he realised it was spelt the same as the chemical Acetone.
I had heard that the FM-3 was first released around 1971.

Looking at the Big Muff schematic, the similarities are very obvious again, including many component values.

I'm not sure where the Vox name was tied to the Supa Tonebender, but I found at least 4 schematics for a Vox Supa TB, including the one at GGG.. I'm sure you're right that it didn't exist, as there doesn't appear to be any images of one.

If any of that info is correct in terms of the schematic, the Supa TB used germanium diodes for clipping both in the feedback loop, and to ground.
The AceTone uses silicon diodes (ala big Muff).

The other main difference is that it switches to the first and last stages only for use as a Boost, and then to all 4 stages for the Fuzz.

The Big Muff was also first released for sale in 1971.. is there any chance the FM-3 came first ?

Greg_G wrote:
The Big Muff was also first released for sale in 1971.. is there any chance the FM-3 came first ?

that would certainly be a coup. i thought i remember mike matthews saying the muff came out in 72. although, his view of history could be a little suspect. the hendrix thing comes to mind.

I must say that I once played an Acetone FM-2, FM-3 and a Bee Baa next to each other; that was also the reason I started this thread a long long time ago........

All three units were from a former friend of mine who was quite close to his stuff; he never let me open them up. I haven't talked to him in years as I found him with my girlfriend in bed.............

But I can understand that it could be a Big Muff like circuit......... that would explain why I was attracted to the unit in the first place......

Thanks Greg!

I must confess a little disappointment. Big Muffs and 3 knob Tonebenders are great pedals, but rank below BeeBaas and Super-Fuzzes on my list of crazy ass fuzzes, and from the rumors, this was supposed to be a crazy ass fuzz.

Greg_G wrote:.. the only variation is with one pair of clipping diodes, and was possibly a mistake that was made when the Vox was traced i'd say.

So, how do we arrange the diodes for an fm-3 build from, say, the GGG schematic?

Dan - there are no clippers to ground, like the Supa Tonebender has.
There are 2 pairs of back to back clippers, and they're in the feedback loops of the 2nd and 3rd transistors, with a capacitor to block DC, just like the Big Muff.
It's really very similar to the Muff.. more so than the Vox...

I hadn't compared it to a Muff when I first mentioned the Vox... not until analogguru mentioned it.

I've made a hand drawn schematic, and I will eventually get a properly drawn one on here for the record.. I've just been busy on other projects... but it's essentailly a Muff in design and also a lot of the values.
A bit disappointing to learn that really..

muted horn rings out.... waah waaaah waaaaaaa......
(rim shot)

what a bummer!

Thanks Greg.

While I too was hoping for something brand new (old), it's a cool addition to the Big Muff lore. Plus, I've learned that while there never was a Vox Suppa Tonebender, there are tons of Vox Suppa Tonebender schematics on the web! The internet be crazy.

For all that...
The FM-3 sounds very good, and can clean up reasonably well.. something I've never found in any of the modern style Muffs that I've tried. Maybe the early ones used to do this.
It sounds more like a nice Tonebender to me than a Muff.

Apart from the Boost switching.. the only real differences that stand out are:
Different values in the tone section.. the scoop is milder than a Muff.
An unusual arrangement of a cap and resistor in parallel at the input to provide some filtering.

Mine sounds awesome, I'm really glad I finally found one. Sometimes you just gotta appreciate something for what it is.

Sickle wrote:Mine sounds awesome, I'm really glad I finally found one. Sometimes you just gotta appreciate something for what it is.

Agreed !

Greg, could you post some gutshots of yours? All the previous photo links in these thread seem to be dead and gone.

Here is one:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main. ... S.jpg.html