Baja B K Butler Tube Driver  [documentation]

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Post by DrNomis »

Snafux,



The Noval socket you are using is a 9-pin type,this means 9-pin Valves will fit it,for the type of Valve used in this circuit,the pinouts are as follows:

Looking at the bottom of the Valve socket with the pins facing towards you,and going in a clockwise direction:


Pin 1=Anode 1.
Pin 2=Grid 1.
Pin 3=Cathode 1.
Pin 4=Heater.
Pin 5=Heater.
Pin 6=Anode 2.
Pin 7=Grid 2.
Pin 8=Cathode 2.
Pin 9=Heater Centre Tap.


The 5 Watt Resistor should be going from the power in socket to pin 5 on the Noval Valve socket..... :)
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Post by DrNomis »

I haven't seen the Rev 2 layout by Lutor,so it is hard for me to work out what could be causing the hum problem in your build Snafux,my build is on Veroboard,and is based on a different layout that was also on Veroboard,I ended up redesigning the original layout to get rid of the humming problem,
most likely,the reason why your build hums is because the circuit board ground tracks have been arranged to inject a small amount of hum into pin 5
of the dual op-amp IC,in my Veroboard layout,the ground tracks are arranged in what's knowned as a "Star-Earthing" system,that is,all grounds are
terminated at one point,the reason why the ground track layout in your build hums is a bit complicated to explain here.... :)
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Post by snafuX »

i'm using the layout posted by lutor on page 6...

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Post by DrNomis »

Ah,okay...I'll have a good look at that layout and see if I can come up with anything that may help,i have a Vero/Stripboard layout for the BK Butler Tube Driver,
which I have successfully used to build a pedal that doesn't have the hum issue,i may have posted it in this forum,but it was a bit hard to read,so stay tuned and I'll try and post a clearer version,Snafux..... :)
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Post by DrNomis »

I'm assuming that you mean the Lutor Perfboard layout on page 6,Snafux..... :)
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Post by snafuX »

yes it is thanks
why there aren't info about the 5w resistence anywhere??
can you tell me exactly where i must connect it?
i'm really new in tubes i can do really a WRONG THING!!
hihihihi thank you very much

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Post by DrNomis »

Snafux,


The 5 Watt resistor drops the approximately 15V AC from a 12 VAC @ 1A plugpack,down to about 12.6V AC to run the heater in a 12AX7 Valve,so it should be connected between where the 12V AC connects to the circuit board,and pin 5 on the Valve socket,in Lutors layout,it doesn't have the 5Watt resistor,but in Bajaman's version,there is one,I personally think Bajaman's version is the best with regards to the hum issue.... :)


I'll explain how a Valve works,using a Triode in this explanation,but first,I'l make this statement,since it will help explain what happens,Like charges repel,unlike charges attract....


Okay,when you apply power to the heater pins of a 12AX7 type valve (pins 4 and 5),a filament inside the valve gets hot and glows,like an incandescent light globe,now around this heater filament is placed a thin metallic cylinder,this is called a "Cathode",the heater filament heats the cathode up so it glows a dull orange colour,now,the cathode is coated with a chemical compound that emits electrons when it is heated,an electron is a very small atomic particle that has a "negative charge",these electrons boil off the cathode much like water vapor boils off boiling hot water,around the cathode is placed a mesh of very fine wire,this is called a "Grid",I'll explain what it does shortly,finally around the cathode and the grid,is placed a third electrode which is made of thin metal sheeting,this is called an "Anode",when you put a positive charge on the anode,by connecting it to a positive point in a circuit,the electrons which are negative in charge,are attracted to the positively charged anode,we then have an electric current flowing from the cathode to the anode(I'm using what's called the "electron-flow"convention here),this electron flow is in itself,not very useful to us if we want to use the Triode Valve as an amplifier,so we need some way to control the current flow from the cathode to the anode,this is what the grid is for,if we put a steady negative charge on the grid,the electrons boiling off the surface of the cathode,are repelled back to the cathode,this has the effect of reducing the current flow from the cathode to the anode,or in other words,we are turning the current flow off,the more negative we make the grid,the more we reduce the current flow from the cathode to the anode.... :)


Just a little bit of Valve Theory,but I hope it helps you to understand how Valves work better,Snafux.... :)
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Post by snafuX »

great explanation i really need this!!!! thanks a lot!!!
unfortunately in the real tube posted by baja the layout is out and i'can't see it
i.ve found a perf layout by DROR that should be the same one
in this layout a 33r/2W res is inserted between the connection of the 12ac power and pin 4 of the tube not pin 5 , pin 5 is connected (as in the lutor's layout) to "ground"(well the other side of the 12ac power)
if you look at the lutor layout it is the same position of the r7 1ohm
at the end have i got to sub the r7 ir ohm with the new 33ohm 5w res??
sorry for my english....

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Post by DrNomis »

snafuX » Today, 13:43
great explanation i really need this!!!! thanks a lot!!!
unfortunately in the real tube posted by baja the layout is out and i'can't see it
i.ve found a perf layout by DROR that should be the same one
in this layout a 33r/2W res is inserted between the connection of the 12ac power and pin 4 of the tube not pin 5 , pin 5 is connected (as in the lutor's layout) to "ground"(well the other side of the 12ac power)
if you look at the lutor layout it is the same position of the r7 1ohm
at the end have i got to sub the r7 ir ohm with the new 33ohm 5w res??
sorry for my english....



No worries at all,Snafux..... :)


It shouldn't make any difference which way around the heaters are connected,it'll work either way.... :)


It depends on what the plugpack adaptor ,that you're using,is putting out on what value of resistor you need to use for R7,some plugpacks,like a 12V AC @ 1A,may need a 33 Ohm resistor,some other plugpacks need a different value,you need to have at least 12.6 V AC going to the heater pins,it only draws a total of 150mA from the plugpack,you can use a 2Watt resistor,but I like to use a 5Watt resistor,since the resistor does get pretty warm,if you use a 5Watt resistor,there is less of a danger of the resistor burning out,and it doesn't get too warm.... :)

First of all,make sure you have the plugpack you want to use to power the pedal with,then try substituting different resistor values,while checking the heater voltage,using a multimeter set to AC,when you find a resistor value that gives you a reading of about 12.6 V AC,that's the resistor value you need to use.... :)



And you are doing just fine with your English,I really hope that has been of some help to you,look forward to seeing a pic of your build sometime..... :)
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Post by Harold »

Can I power the Tube Driver with a 12v DC adapter with a "voltage inverter"? Or does it draw too much current for one of these?

Image
Voltage inverter (+9v to -9v)
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Post by DrNomis »

Harold wrote:Can I power the Tube Driver with a 12v DC adapter with a "voltage inverter"? Or does it draw too much current for one of these?

Image
Voltage inverter (+9v to -9v)


It really needs to be powered from an AC plugpack since the circuit already has power supply circuitry built in that generates both a +V and a -V supply...... :)
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Post by Harold »

DrNomis wrote:
Harold wrote:Can I power the Tube Driver with a 12v DC adapter with a "voltage inverter"?
It really needs to be powered from an AC plugpack since the circuit already has power supply circuitry built in that generates both a +V and a -V supply...... :)
I know it's designed to run off an AC adapter, but I want to know if a bipolar DC power supply based on a voltage inverter can be used to power the tube driver. I run my complete pedalboard with my Cioks Double Jack and don't have the space for another adapter...

According to the schematic, the only thing running on AC are the heaters, but I believe they are quite happy with DC also.

So can this schematic be converted to accept a 12v DC power supply?
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Post by DrNomis »

Harold wrote:
DrNomis wrote:
Harold wrote:Can I power the Tube Driver with a 12v DC adapter with a "voltage inverter"?
It really needs to be powered from an AC plugpack since the circuit already has power supply circuitry built in that generates both a +V and a -V supply...... :)
I know it's designed to run off an AC adapter, but I want to know if a bipolar DC power supply based on a voltage inverter can be used to power the tube driver. I run my complete pedalboard with my Cioks Double Jack and don't have the space for another adapter...

According to the schematic, the only thing running on AC are the heaters, but I believe they are quite happy with DC also.

So can this schematic be converted to accept a 12v DC power supply?


I can't see why it shouldn't work,you'll probably get lower noise levels,the tube circuit itself doesn't really consume much current,the heater will draw 12.6V at 150mA(using pins 4 and 5),and I would expect the rest of the circuit to draw at least 100mA at most,so,provided that the voltage converter can supply up to at least 250mA for the circuit,I think the whole idea is feasible,if you power the whole thing from a 16VDC plugpack of at least 1 A,there should be no problems.... :)

Even a 500mA plugpack should work too... :)


And yes,the valve heaters are happy with being supplied with DC,since I have tried that in the past and it does work..... :)
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Post by Harold »

Nice! :thumbsup

Can anybody tell me what the voltages of V+ raw, V+, V++, V- and V-- are?
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Post by DrNomis »

Harold wrote:Nice! :thumbsup

Can anybody tell me what the voltages of V+ raw, V+, V++, V- and V-- are?


Well,I built a pedal from Bajaman's schematic,used a 12V/1A AC plugpack,and this is what I got in terms of voltage:



V+ Raw= About 13V(Depending on the current limiting resistor for the heater supply).

V+= About 14.75V

V++=About 12V.

V-=About 15V.

V--=About 11.90V.
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Post by Harold »

DrNomis wrote:Well,I built a pedal from Bajaman's schematic,used a 12V/1A AC plugpack,and this is what I got in terms of voltage:

V+ Raw= About 13V(Depending on the current limiting resistor for the heater supply).
V+= About 14.75V
V++=About 12V.
V-=About 15V.
V--=About 11.90V.
What will be the effect of only using +12v and -12v? Will it be noticable?

V+ Raw = 12V
V+ = 12V
V++ = 12V
V- = slightly less than -12V
V-- = slightly less than -12V
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Post by DrNomis »

Harold wrote:
DrNomis wrote:Well,I built a pedal from Bajaman's schematic,used a 12V/1A AC plugpack,and this is what I got in terms of voltage:

V+ Raw= About 13V(Depending on the current limiting resistor for the heater supply).
V+= About 14.75V
V++=About 12V.
V-=About 15V.
V--=About 11.90V.
What will be the effect of only using +12v and -12v? Will it be noticable?

V+ Raw = 12V
V+ = 12V
V++ = 12V
V- = slightly less than -12V
V-- = slightly less than -12V



My guess is that the pedal will have less hedroom,you might also get less output level from it too.... :)

It may not sound good at a lower supply voltage..... :)
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Post by Kitrae »

Looking at the pix of David Gilmour's BKB Tube Drivers in his Pete Cornish board, it appears Pete removed the 1m resistor at C2, upper left of the pcb. Anyone know what this mod may be for?

Here's mine.
Image

And David's. Looks like the R18 resistor has been swapped out too.
Image
Last edited by lolbou on 23 Mar 2011, 20:03, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post edited to get big pîc
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Post by bajaman »

ask pete :roll:
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Post by Kitrae »

I bug Pete enough as is, so I thought I would ask here, where all the smart people are 8) It is probably there to protect against unregulated power. Pete may have dropped it because the power in David's board is regulated, so it's not really needed.
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