Baja B K Butler Tube Driver

schemripper · Post by **schemripper** » 06 Oct 2008, 05:20

seniorLoco wrote:Just an update ....Modz a Butler to Baja specs with a 12au7. Reduced the two 47k anode resistors to 22k for best results and the bias became way more useable. Everything else was to Baja.

Bajaman ....Thanks Heaps

Big gain valves are not always the best valves, even in a preamp. You have to balance out the entire signal, and low gains mean you can push everything harder.

Similar to the fine tuning documented in Bajaman's Real Tube Driver thread.

And also similar to David Gilmour's Chandlers. He uses 12AT7s, not AX7s (source- Pete Cornish to me.)

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 07 Oct 2008, 01:06

Yup... 12AT7 was nice too but the owner wanted the 12AU7 instead, since he could dial the tone he wanted.... but the weird thing is that he is a big fan of gilmour

thanks for that bit on Gil's Chandler's

golson · Post by **golson** » 07 Oct 2008, 12:15

I like to know where I can get the PCB board made at and the enclosure. I don't have the materials to build one and it might be cheaper for me to buy the board and enclosure somewhere. Thanks..greg

schemripper · Post by **schemripper** » 12 Oct 2008, 04:00

golson wrote:I like to know where I can get the PCB board made at and the enclosure. I don't have the materials to build one and it might be cheaper for me to buy the board and enclosure somewhere. Thanks..greg

Firstly, where are you? That will impact on costs for you. For example, I'm in New Caledonia at the moment and am off to Bali for more gigs at the end of next week. Assuming of course that the country, my bank, and the world economy in general still exists on Thursday. And then I have to get to Thailand.

Secondly, have a look at Bajaman's Real Tube Drive. I've played with both, and on my setup with my ears, the Baja circuit is worth considering. The other advantages are that Bajaman is here, and at one stage at least was selling them. There is no better way of supporting the man, whom I sense is one of the decent people around here. And no, I've never met him, even had emails with him. On the other hand, I've met Chandler and came away with the conclusion that he is a 100% dickhead. But for the money, I guess you can be.

And to finish- what if a pedal sounds good, but it's not a Chandler? OK, next time you go to a concert, bring back a list of the effects they were using, as you could see them from the audience. You can't can you- you can't see them. So the only person that would be impressed by you having a Chandler over a Baja, or maybe even a Shakatube (running, hiding), is you.

golson · Post by **golson** » 12 Oct 2008, 11:55

golson wrote:I like to know where I can get the PCB board made at and the enclosure. I don't have the materials to build one and it might be cheaper for me to buy the board and enclosure somewhere. Thanks..greg

Sorry if I offended anyone here. I will be more respectful in the future. I just needed help in the chandler metal case....greg

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 13 Oct 2008, 00:58

schemripper wrote:
am off to Bali for more gigs at the end of next week..... And then I have to get to Thailand.

Dude what about Singapore?? ...its smack right in between .

schemripper · Post by **schemripper** » 13 Oct 2008, 12:06

seniorLoco wrote:
schemripper wrote:
am off to Bali for more gigs at the end of next week..... And then I have to get to Thailand.

Dude what about Singapore?? ...its smack right in between .

Talk to the manager- I didn't book it.

imaradiostar · Post by **imaradiostar** » 21 Oct 2008, 01:17

Can anyone else verify the mid resistor in the tone stack was 22k ohms on a Tube Driver they've had apart? I used to own an original (and very old) Butler tube driver and I'm pretty sure it had a 10k mid resistor. I replaced it with a 25k pot that seemed to give me a lot more control and really improved the sound, especially because I used the pedal with the treble and bass controls set at the minimum.

jamie

golson · Post by **golson** » 28 Oct 2008, 12:35

What transformer is in the bk butler tube driver? I cannot read the manufacturer.

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 28 Oct 2008, 20:44

What transformer is in the bk butler tube driver? I cannot read the manufacturer.

Probably a Korean, Taiwanese or Chinese Toroidal - for example: Yew Wah Wong

bajaman

golson · Post by **golson** » 28 Oct 2008, 21:25

bajaman wrote:
What transformer is in the bk butler tube driver? I cannot read the manufacturer.
Probably a Korean, Taiwanese or Chinese Toroidal - for example: Yew Wah Wong
bajaman

Bajaman,
From your first post is the layout exactly like the BK butler tube driver correct? I am having a few made and want to be sure...Thanks if you can let me know...greg

golson · Post by **golson** » 28 Oct 2008, 22:17

I asked BK Butler what he uses and this is his qoute:

"Actually I've recently started using a custom torroid for the Tube Drivers.
They are 12.6V at 200mA."

"That was the purpose. To eliminate any stray 50 - 60Hz hum field."

lolbou · Post by **lolbou** » 18 Nov 2008, 21:50

schemripper wrote:And also similar to David Gilmour's Chandlers. He uses 12AT7s, not AX7s (source- Pete Cornish to me.)

Hi everyone,

I'm new here on this forum, and first of all I'd like to say Bravo to Baja for all his precious and minute work...

So my first question here is about the tube used by Gilmour in his TDrivers... It is said here, on gilmourish.com (a nice site indeed) http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=218, that Gilmour's TDs tubes are Yugo 12Ax7...

So schemripper, did Pete Cornish modified it lately? Or is gilmourish wrong in some ways?

And if Pete's right (which I think is true), are there any mods to make to the pedal for good circuitry matching with the 12AT7?

Thank you for your help! I'm working on an old Deluxe Electric Mistress which is broken, and once fixed, I'd like to publish here a project...

schemripper · Post by **schemripper** » 19 Nov 2008, 03:21

You caught me on one of my few days off. My next reply will be in about 3 weeks.

lolbou wrote:
schemripper wrote:And also similar to David Gilmour's Chandlers. He uses 12AT7s, not AX7s (source- Pete Cornish to me.)
So my first question here is about the tube used by Gilmour in his TDrivers... It is said here, on gilmourish.com (a nice

you forgot to say- fan

lolbou wrote:site indeed) http://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=218, that Gilmour's TDs tubes are Yugo 12Ax7...

So schemripper, did Pete Cornish modified it lately? Or is gilmourish wrong in some ways?

And if Pete's right (which I think is true), are there any mods to make to the pedal for good circuitry matching with the 12AT7?

As interesting as Gilmourish is, it is a fan site without contribution or endorsement by Mr Gilmour, Mr Cornish or even Mr Butler.

Or, to put it another way-

Despite what everyone under 30 thinks, you cant believe everything you read on the web

Heck, I don't even believe everything Pete Cornish says on the web. He claims to have built Brian May's Deacy Amp, and not John Deacon, which then makes me ask- why does Brian call it a Deacy Amp? I don't know- only Brian does.

Pete Cornish is, after all, a salesman.

And following that up, only David Gilmour knows what David Gilmour uses. But if I had to make a choice between Cornish and Gilmourish...

Best thing to do is not give a toss about what Cornish or Butler or even I think- find your sound. So to find out what resistors etc to play with, go to the the first posting on this page

lolbou · Post by **lolbou** » 19 Nov 2008, 06:22

I guess you're right concerning information on the web... I knew about your Deacy Amp stuff (a Queen fan too!!), but he may had to rebuild it nicely for noise or design issues? Who knows any better than Bri itself, you're right again...

So then, schemripper, what am I supposed to tweak in the pedal if I'd like to test 12AT7 or 12AX7, or do nothing but swap the tubes from the socket? 'Cause in my Fender Hot Rod, when it comes to trying 12AT7, a volume drop is noticeable...

Thank you for your piece of advices (and enjoy your days off!)

ik6gpy · Post by **ik6gpy** » 18 Dec 2008, 13:35

Hi there,
i've built one these pedals (with my own single sided Pcb) and i found that that when i set the bias knob from 0 to 3/4 i have an ugly gated distortion when the gain is set from medium to high.
When i have the bias knob maxed, the resistor and capacitor between Pin3 and V-- are bypassed and i got the best sound out of it (V++ at +12V approx, Anode (pin1) at 6V and V-- at -13,8V approx)

Is it normal that the bias knob is so unuseful?

Below you can see my own boards, one for the power supply and one for the signal. I've used the Paul Marossy Shaka Tube idea to fit a tube in a 1590BB. It works pretty well, but you have to spend a lot of time to wire all of the tube pins.

Pcb's are verified, there is a little mistake in the Power layout: diodes are 1N4007 instead of the 1n4148 showed). 12VAC2 must be connected to ground.
This is one of my very first Eagle layouts and the resitor pads diameter is very small.
Enjoy
Matteo

DavidRavenMoon · Post by **DavidRavenMoon** » 27 Dec 2008, 20:14

seniorLoco wrote:Yup... 12AT7 was nice too but the owner wanted the 12AU7 instead, since he could dial the tone he wanted.... but the weird thing is that he is a big fan of gilmour

I have a BK Butler Blue Tube, and I also replaced the 12AX7 with a 12AU7. The pedal is much better that way. One problem is the output impedance is a bit high, so I have to make sure it's plugged into something with a high input Z, and then the other issue is to get the level up to unity I had to turn the drive up, and then it would distort more than I wanted. So with the 12AU7 I can crank the drive up and still have a cleaner tone, with just a hint of dirt.

Next I want to install an output buffer. Since I don't have a schematic I'm trying to find a good point (probably after the 500K volume pot) to patch into, as this has electronic switching.

rdecor · Post by **rdecor** » 04 Jan 2009, 09:24

HI THERE,
It is grate that you have original "BK" Can you halp mi, please?
I just build Tube Drive an base of your posting and it did not work. Before next test please can you check with original, "BK " if "volume" pot trace on your drawing of PC board is missing connection to "ground", please.

Did you see any others errors in your schematic or PC board comparing to original.?
What is volume of resistor R14 and cap C1 ? In some versions it is 2,2k and 473K

tHANK YOU .

ik6gpy · Post by **ik6gpy** » 04 Jan 2009, 11:00

rdecor wrote:HI THERE,
It is grate that you have original "BK" Can you halp mi, please?
I just build Tube Drive an base of your posting and it did not work. Before next test please can you check with original, "BK " if "volume" pot trace on your drawing of PC board is missing connection to "ground", please.

Did you see any others errors in your schematic or PC board comparing to original.?
What is volume of resistor R14 and cap C1 ? In some versions it is 2,2k and 473K

tHANK YOU .

Layout is verified and works very well. Lug 2 of the volume pot is the Fx Output. You have to connect Pin5 of the power board to ground (Lug1 of the volume pot) to make it work. Don't forget also to connect output jack to ground and the input jack to ground (through the paralleled 100n cap and 100ohm resistor).
Schematic is posted on the first pages.
If it doesn't work check your traces and voltages.
Matteo

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 04 Jan 2009, 11:13

I think that 2.2k is the correct value resistor but 22k will work just as well - just more midrange and less mid scoop sounding that is all.

bajaman

Baja B K Butler Tube Driver [documentation]