Matter on flux...

[Spewbag]

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

[Seishin]

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

Really "dufus"? Thats not necessary. I had no idea we should be cleaning "no-clean" solder. Maybe I am a nitwit.

[Spewbag]

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

Really "dufus"? Thats not necessary. I had no idea we should be cleaning "no-clean" solder. Maybe I am a nitwit.

[Seishin]

Look I've never done anything to you, fella. You're being a patronizing jerk to me for no reason. Instead of being that guy on the internet who is clearly better than folks who are in the biz professionally why don't you go into biz for yourself? The poison some folks spew could be refocused onto really dominating this tiny little industry. No joke.

I realize you are free to say what you want about myself or my company. Though I'd appreciate it a ton if folks would lay off the attacks as a foundational starting point to dialog. It isn't as if I am coming in here threatening to kick your ass, or bragging about hanging out with Joe Rockstar last night, or patronizing you in anyway. I am just a normal dude who is blessed to being doing for a living what I wanted to do since 8th grade, honored to employ some of the most talented people in the world, and flattered folks are talking about the things we create on the far corners of the internet (such as here) and that we ship to the far corners of the planet. Its actually pretty mind boggling and humbling to me.

P.S. If anybody has any questions about the Dirty Little Secret or any other Catalinbread pedals email me Nicholas (a) catalinbread.com. I will try to answer in as timely a manner as possible.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

Really "dufus"? Thats not necessary. I had no idea we should be cleaning "no-clean" solder. Maybe I am a nitwit.

[madbean]

I like the 'all on board approach'...been working on some designs lately that do this (single sided, though). Good quote...shows a sense of humor, which is definitely lacking on some folks part these days.

Cleaning the board up would make it prettier, for sure, but I hate it when people get arrogant about that kind of thing. Soldering isn't about proving you have a bigger cock.

[Lawnchair]

Must leave now for a Cinco gig amigo's. Gut shots coming tomorrow.

[Lawnchair]

[Brian M]

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

I don't know about you, but I think most guys are smart enough not to clip their guitar strings in to the internal workings of their gear....

Either way, there's no need for name calling, especially since nic is a member here.

[Scruffie]

Well I don't even know why i'm getting involved but I kinda like it fluxed like that, a bit of character and not all clinical and I must say no offence to you spewbag (somehow however you say that...) I know you were only voicing your own opinion but constructive critisism, if it was and it just came off badly due to the lack of tone of voice in typing I do appologise and by commenting on that I in no way mean you any disregard, just a comment, not a stab (I hate it when stuff escalates so incredibly high on here after a simple comment that could either be ignored, accepted or a simple comment on would suffice).

In defence of Seishin not that he can't defend himself he has a lot to do! he has to run the business and make the pedals and design them and so on, as long as the effect works well a bit of extra solder or a dribble of flux isn't hurting anyone but that comment is purely on a observational basis... not a hit on his work either!

Probably shouldn't even post this as it'll probably turn out bad anyway but too late.

[Spewbag]

I was talking about opening the pedal to replace a battery and laying it down on the ground or a bench.............besides we all know that musicians sometimes arn't the brightest people(I include my self in that statement)

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

I don't know about you, but I think most guys are smart enough not to clip their guitar strings in to the internal workings of their gear....

Either way, there's no need for name calling, especially since nic is a member here.

[paulc]

I was talking about opening the pedal to replace a battery and laying it down on the ground or a bench.............besides we all know that musicians sometimes arn't the brightest people(I include my self in that statement)

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

I don't know about you, but I think most guys are smart enough not to clip their guitar strings in to the internal workings of their gear....

Either way, there's no need for name calling, especially since nic is a member here.

In the case of something falling in there it's not the flux you have to worry about. Everytime you picked up the pedal and moved it the little piece of wire would move around and short out something else regardless of if it had flux on it or not. It's not a problem of not cleaning flux. It's a problem of something getting into the pedal.

As to removing the flux or not it's really a personal/esthetic issue. We're not talking about acid based flux here. No reason to call somebody a "dufus".

Those jacks are pretty solid. 6 lugs to hold them to the board spaced 3 per side. I spent the whole 90's as a service tech, and i never had a problem with jacks like that. It was the pc mount ones that were only 2 or three pins per jack. They didn't have a solid mounting base, and tended to wiggle causing solder breaks.

It's the pc mount DC jacks that caused most of the problems I've seen.

[Spewbag]

Wow all I said was "Dufus" Imagine had I said "Shit head,Dumb ass or ass hole" Bottom line all it was was an observation. Sure, maybe I shouldn't had added the fore mentioned "name" but I believe in doing your own best work and when people are spending cash one shouldn't skimp.....just my 2 bits.

Look I've never done anything to you, fella. You're being a patronizing jerk to me for no reason. Instead of being that guy on the internet who is clearly better than folks who are in the biz professionally why don't you go into biz for yourself? The poison some folks spew could be refocused onto really dominating this tiny little industry. No joke.

I realize you are free to say what you want about myself or my company. Though I'd appreciate it a ton if folks would lay off the attacks as a foundational starting point to dialog. It isn't as if I am coming in here threatening to kick your ass, or bragging about hanging out with Joe Rockstar last night, or patronizing you in anyway. I am just a normal dude who is blessed to being doing for a living what I wanted to do since 8th grade, honored to employ some of the most talented people in the world, and flattered folks are talking about the things we create on the far corners of the internet (such as here) and that we ship to the far corners of the planet. Its actually pretty mind boggling and humbling to me.

P.S. If anybody has any questions about the Dirty Little Secret or any other Catalinbread pedals email me Nicholas (a) catalinbread.com. I will try to answer in as timely a manner as possible.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

Really "dufus"? Thats not necessary. I had no idea we should be cleaning "no-clean" solder. Maybe I am a nitwit.

[TJSmitty]

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

I strongly disagree with your points, and I think you're propogating some flawed information.

The flux is a non-issue. There's no property of it that would or would not "attract" particles, thats a common myth. Second, the solder joints are fine. Thick, but fine. Recently, Nic commented that out of 6,000 Catalinbread units shipped in the last few years, only 10 had issues, and a few of those weren't construction/part related. The joints are nothing to worry about.

[Spewbag]

I've seen things lodged in flux...............obviously you haven't.

BTW It's more than personal/esthetic's go look at an IPC manual.........See this is the problem.A Builder will spend 100's of hours researching circuits but only spend an hour familiarizing themselves with a solder iron. Don't believe me??? Go look at any number of gut shots on this site..........just damn sad that's all I got to say.

I was talking about opening the pedal to replace a battery and laying it down on the ground or a bench.............besides we all know that musicians sometimes arn't the brightest people(I include my self in that statement)

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

I don't know about you, but I think most guys are smart enough not to clip their guitar strings in to the internal workings of their gear....

Either way, there's no need for name calling, especially since nic is a member here.

In the case of something falling in there it's not the flux you have to worry about. Everytime you picked up the pedal and moved it the little piece of wire would move around and short out something else regardless of if it had flux on it or not. It's not a problem of not cleaning flux. It's a problem of something getting into the pedal

As to removing the flux or not it's really a personal/esthetic issue. We're not talking about acid based flux here. No reason to call somebody a "dufus".

[Spewbag]

Well I strongly disagree with you and I think your info is flawed.......Please show me some literature where flux and foreign objects such as dust and dirt is a myth??? And again my opinion is that he uses way to much solder. Much less solder would be a structurally better hold.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

I strongly disagree with your points, and I think you're propogating some flawed information.

The flux is a non-issue. There's no property of it that would or would not "attract" particles, thats a common myth. Second, the solder joints are fine. Thick, but fine. Recently, Nic commented that out of 6,000 Catalinbread units shipped in the last few years, only 10 had issues, and a few of those weren't construction/part related. The joints are nothing to worry about.

[Scruffie]

Why so agro about all this??

Ok not everyone has the finest needle tipped soldering iron, especially on this forum that is based around learning for those without, the circuit works fine! If it ain't broke don't fix it and if it's a rare occurence it will get broken cause you've been randomly filing metal near it and the dust has got in, well it ain't a difficult fix and a rare occurence at that... sounds about as likely as a wire falling off due to a lack of solder...

I don't want to be rude but you seem to be arguing about this alot, let it go, your making it get into the realms of OCD about neatness which I doubt it is, I don't want to aggrovate you more and this once again isn't a stab, it's a just leave it, you'll only start a fight with the forum.

[Seishin]

There is no skimping. That's your assumption. We have some of the lowest priced pedals on the market that are made by hand by people paid WELL over minimum wage. When we decided to go to a build method the first concern of mine is:

"Will it sound good?"

Followed by:
"Will it increase productivity so that I can pass more pay and benefits to my staff AND lower retail price?"

Followed by:
"Will this change deliver a more efficiently made, consistent and durable product than before?"

If I can answer yes to these three then I feel I have a pretty solid reason to investigate further. The last thing I worry about is if somebody can't get over our build methods. I've learned to be honest about this marketplace. Somebody who wants cloth wire, tropical fish caps, and NOS unobtanium semiconductors is NOT going to be interested in Catalinbread products NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY SOUND!

All I am saying is you don't have to call me names. I am just a regular person like you are. Shit you and I have a lot more in common than you'd think. I refuse to be painted as some sort of moron, conman, or asshole by somebody on the internet who doesn't know me at all. We can all get taller by raising everybody up, it is too much work to make everybody else smaller in order to feel taller.

I mean this with all due respect.

Wow all I said was "Dufus" Imagine had I said "Shit head,Dumb ass or ass hole" Bottom line all it was was an observation. Sure, maybe I shouldn't had added the fore mentioned "name" but I believe in doing your own best work and when people are spending cash one shouldn't skimp.....just my 2 bits.

Look I've never done anything to you, fella. You're being a patronizing jerk to me for no reason. Instead of being that guy on the internet who is clearly better than folks who are in the biz professionally why don't you go into biz for yourself? The poison some folks spew could be refocused onto really dominating this tiny little industry. No joke.

I realize you are free to say what you want about myself or my company. Though I'd appreciate it a ton if folks would lay off the attacks as a foundational starting point to dialog. It isn't as if I am coming in here threatening to kick your ass, or bragging about hanging out with Joe Rockstar last night, or patronizing you in anyway. I am just a normal dude who is blessed to being doing for a living what I wanted to do since 8th grade, honored to employ some of the most talented people in the world, and flattered folks are talking about the things we create on the far corners of the internet (such as here) and that we ship to the far corners of the planet. Its actually pretty mind boggling and humbling to me.

P.S. If anybody has any questions about the Dirty Little Secret or any other Catalinbread pedals email me Nicholas (a) catalinbread.com. I will try to answer in as timely a manner as possible.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

Here ya go.

I gather this dufus doesn't feel he needs to remove the flux after soldering????

Really "dufus"? Thats not necessary. I had no idea we should be cleaning "no-clean" solder. Maybe I am a nitwit.

[Seishin]

Do you have one right there to look at? If not how do you know there is too much solder for the diameter of each pad? I see a lot of "bubbles" in that pic that are indeed IRL pretty little tents of solder.

BTW, I could use a tip. We are making 50-70 pedals a day. We used to clean everyone with spray brake cleaner, but couldn't find a good place to puddle up the drip off and at $8 a can it was way too expensive. So we started using acetone and an old toothbrush... However fumes are no good, skin contact isn't great, and its combustible. What would you suggest using to clean this number of boards each day?

Well I strongly disagree with you and I think your info is flawed.......Please show me some literature where flux and foreign objects such as dust and dirt is a myth??? And again my opinion is that he uses way to much solder. Much less solder would be a structurally better hold.

Number one: Anything that gets soldered in my shop gets cleaned.It's the practices of the majority of board house in the U.S. as well as over seas,It looks professional and doesn't take much time to do.

Number two: Regardless if flux is no-clean or not it does attract foreign substances. at best it can attract dust ,dirt and whatever foreign crap thats at your gig area and at worst all it takes is one clipped guitar string,washer or any other metal to get stuck on there and created a nice short.

Bottom line it's lazy not to clean up after your work.


P.S. There also WAY too much solder on those joints..........Someone needs to take a class.

I strongly disagree with your points, and I think you're propogating some flawed information.

The flux is a non-issue. There's no property of it that would or would not "attract" particles, thats a common myth. Second, the solder joints are fine. Thick, but fine. Recently, Nic commented that out of 6,000 Catalinbread units shipped in the last few years, only 10 had issues, and a few of those weren't construction/part related. The joints are nothing to worry about.

[culturejam]

Thanks for this... The business bullshit and struggles is something I'd happily share around these parts. There are already plenty of great engineer and designer types around here, I can contribute in other meat and potatoes sorts of ways... But business stuff ain't as sexy as reverse engineering and 10 times as big a headache.

Again, I'm sure that your insider experiences as a professional producer of effects pedals would be greatly appreciated here. Anything you are willing to contribute is much appreciated.

If you can, try your best to ignore the nay-sayers and just enjoy conversing with those of us that love effects as much as you do. I know it must be hard to shake off the really negative comments. I doubt most of the negative stuff is really personal, although I'm sure it feels that way sometimes.

Thanks again.

[soulsonic]

You use water to clean flux. That's how you do it. They make flux that comes off with water. You put the board under the tap in the sink and scrub it with a toothbrush. Then, you use compressed air to dry it out. That's how the folks at the assembly place I used to work at did it. If you have to do many at a time, then perhaps you could invest in a board washer... which is something sort of like a dishwasher, except for circuit boards. It uses water, too.

But, I'm not going to be critical about there being flux on your boards because it's really doesn't matter anyway other than being kinda ugly. I might complain about it if it were a $400 overdrive, but it ain't, so who cares.

What's wrong with acetone? I use acetone every day in my normal process of pedal building. It's really not bad to be around if the room is ventilated and you're wearing gloves. Building electronics involves being around dangerous chemicals and elements; that's part of the job. You wear proper gear and take the proper precautions and just deal with it.

Maybe it's because I come from an industrial background having worked in factory environments... electronics was a welcome change and is much cleaner than other things I've done.