Ibanez - LA Metal (LM7) to Fat Cat conversion

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 18 Dec 2007, 17:36

I'd have to say... yes, it did for me.

We take two HC ratings for 2 different pedals:
Sound Quality 8.6 (23 responses)
Sound Quality 3.9 (9 responses)

I own em both. The first one is a long time stayer in my live setup and is known as the Ibanez Fat Cat (FC10)... as we all know it's a clone of a certain rodent. If the Fat Cat stays at home i't usually because a real Rodent is entering the stage.

The second one was bought years ago and has been doing virtually nothing but gathering dust in a very deep corner.... It listens to the name Ibanez LA Metal (LM7) and is, in my opinion the worst pedal I've ever played... together with the Boss Hyper Metal.... Pure crap. The LM7 does have a stainless steel case which together with the sudden "7" in it's number (as opposed of all 10's in teh power series).

So... I picked it out of that dusty corner today to give it a fresh attempt in finding out what exactly was wrong with the thing (or.. where it went wrong on the Maxon design table. Started reversing and was... more or less drawing up a rodent again, apart from some small but very crucial alterations in the circuit.
When done, in a last inspection the FC0101 on the PCB silkscreen started to give me a nasty feeling. Fat cat out of the cage and opened up. Exactly the same board but set up as a rodent.

All alterations on the LA metal's board are variations and ommissions of the Fat Cat's circuit meaning that within a 15 minutes a LM7 can be turned into a FatCat.
Now Fat Cat's arent that extremely expensive either but LM7's are dirt cheap. LM7's do have one very good thing, being that stainless steel casing.

So,
Get those LA Metal's out there. In only 15 minutes you'll have a real player!

I'll draw a circuit with the differences later. Dinner's waiting

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 18 Dec 2007, 18:42

Dirk, Dirk, Dirk......

Is reading really so complicated ?

On February 22, 2005 a user with the nickname "analogguru" wrote here:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=30197.0

this:

analogguru wrote: You can use a 5534 without problems, Ibanez did it in their FC10 FatCat (Rat-clone).

The LM7 L.A. Metal uses the same PCB but without clipping diodes and for the compensation cap they used 1n8 = 1800pF, Low-pass filter 6n8 instead of 3n3

analogguru

One year ago, on December 22, 2006 the same user analogguru wrote here:

https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=52642.0

this:

analogguru wrote: Maybe it´s allowed to ask a question:

Is this a DIY-forum or not ?

If you are unhappy with the L.A. Metal why not modify it? Christmas is coming soon.....

The L.A. Metal uses exactly the SAME pcb as the Fat-Cat (FC-10) - never wondered why there is printed PCB-FC-0101A on the pcb ?

So, to convert the L.A. Metal into a Fat-Cat, you have to do (only) the following steps:

1.) Buy a 1k resistor, a 3n3 film-capacitor and a 3µ3 elko.
2.) Open the unit.
3.) Locate C6 (1n8), C12 (10µ), C16 (4µ7) and C20 (6n8) on the pcb.
4.) Desolder C6, C12, C16 and C20 (carefully, we need C12 and C16).
5.) Solder the 1k resistor in position R20, the 3n3 film-capacitor in C20, the 3µ3 elko in C12, the 4µ7 elko in C14 and the 10µ Elko in C16
6.) C6 stays empty
7.) control everything, especially your solder points.
8.) close the unit
9.) Now you are the lucky winner of an Ibanez FC-10 Fat Cat !!!

If you still don´t like the sound, you can by a LM 308, a ......, a..... and make the rat-version you like.

But this is another story...

analogguru

P.S.: for the technicians: C6 (1n8, huge!!!) is connected between pin 5 and 8 of the 5534 (frequency compensation).

and this:

small update:

Peter Moore is right, the LM7 does not have the clipping diodes, instead there is in position D5 a 1M resistor.

so:

1a.) Buy two 1 N 4148 diodes.
4a.) desolder the 1M Resistor in position D5.
5a.) solder the two diodes in D5 and D6 (antiparallel !!!).

sorry that i forgot this.

analogguru

Dirk, how long do you have your LA Metal now ?

enjoy and solder,
analogguru

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 18 Dec 2007, 18:59

Pisss!!!

Damn Am I owned

respect AG. You surely beat me to this!!

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 18 Dec 2007, 19:13

Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 18 Dec 2007, 19:20

DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?

yes and no.....

There is more inside than in a Rat....
And this "more" seems to make this pedal unwanted...

Did you finish the mods on the TM5 as suggested ?

analogguru

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 18 Dec 2007, 19:21

DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?

Let's say there's parts in the circuit that are derived from a Rat:
http://dirk-hendrik.com/ibanez_thrashmetal.pdf

Similar to the Cyberdrive btw. There's some inheritance:
http://dirk-hendrik.com/ibanez_cyberdrive.pdf

but not definite clones.

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 18 Dec 2007, 19:31

analogguru wrote:
DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?
yes and no.....

There is more inside than in a Rat....
And this "more" seems to make this pedal unwanted...

Did you finish the mods on the TM5 as suggested ?

analogguru

Mr. Guru, I've printed the instructions you've given me, but I haven't been able to actually do them, and to put that pedal roaring! Currently, I'm amp-less, and therefore I have no amp to test the pedal and see if the mods were good or bad! However, until the end of this year, I think I'll might be able to accomplish my goals - get an amp and put this bitch running (aka TM5), among other things

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 18 Dec 2007, 20:02

@Dirk

Your schematic contains mistakes:
The inpput buffer has its own bias: 9k1 to + (R3) and 22k to gnd (R4). In parallel to the 22k is a 10µ/16v (C2).

Then the 200 Ohm (not in series with the poti) R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).

Then the resistor in series with the Tone-poti is not 24k it is 2k4....

The coupling cap to the base of the output buffer (C21) is only 50V.

All FET´s are 2SK 118-O
All transistors - except TR3 - are 2SC 1815-GR
TR3 (for the gyrator in the EQ) is a 2SC 1815-Y, sometimes a 2SC 1815-BL.

analogguru

Post by **modman** » 18 Dec 2007, 20:32

Great thread, ready for a great folder:

Pimp My Cheap Pedal (way beyond boutique quality)

Retitled and moved.

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 19 Dec 2007, 09:08

analogguru wrote:@Dirk

Your schematic contains mistakes:

And as usual Mr AG is right again

Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing. Thanks for keepin me alert.

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 19 Dec 2007, 09:17

And as usual Mr AG is right again

You may not like it - BUT - he is never wrong

bajaman

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 19 Dec 2007, 10:05

bajaman wrote:
And as usual Mr AG is right again
You may not like it - BUT - he is never wrong
bajaman

Yep,

And therefore a prime example of the level of analysis to aim for when reversing.

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 19 Dec 2007, 10:23

However,

With the changes AG mentiones earlier in this thread I have to disagree on some points:
http://www.dirk-hendrik.com/temp/ibanez ... _metal.pdf

Enjoy

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 19 Dec 2007, 11:28

Hmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmmmm....

So.... there is written: "Schematic is drawn for the LM7".

In my LM7 C20 is 6n8, not 3n....

Because I don´t own a FC10 for me would be interesting to clear the following things:

Is C6 really assembled in the FC, and if yes than really with 1n !!! ?
The schematic circling around doesn´t have one and the original Rat uses 30pF there.

Is R15 in the FC 200 Ohm too or as 1k as shown in the circling schmema ?

Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing.

Not really because I wrote:

R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).

the 1k (R21) is still wrong. this part should look like in the FC10/LM 7.

analogguru

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 19 Dec 2007, 12:25

analogguru wrote:Hmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmmmm....

So.... there is written: "Schematic is drawn for the LM7".

In my LM7 C20 is 6n8, not 3n....

Because I don´t own a FC10 for me would be interesting to clear the following things:

Is C6 really assembled in the FC, and if yes than really with 1n !!! ?
The schematic circling around doesn´t have one and the original Rat uses 30pF there.

Is R15 in the FC 200 Ohm too or as 1k as shown in the circling schmema ?

Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing.
Not really because I wrote:

R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).
the 1k (R21) is still wrong. this part should look like in the FC10/LM 7.

analogguru

Trashmetal.... corrected

FC:
C20: Other than that I forgot (yes...) the LM7 value,
LM7:1n2 (122), FC 3n (302)
C6:
LM7: 1n8 (182), FC 1n (102)

R15: 200 ohms both cases (and in the colour coding I can imagine the mistake for 1K is easily made)

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 19 Dec 2007, 12:58

C20: Other than that I forgot (yes...) the LM7 value,
LM7:1n2 (122), FC 3n (302)

what ? LM 7 only 1n2 ? mine has 6n8 .....
I have to verifiy this....

1n for the compensation cap in the FC10 will result in a very "smooth" Rat ... if not to say dull...

analogguru

TubeDude22 · Post by **TubeDude22** » 31 Dec 2007, 19:46

Checking in to say thanks for the mods. I popped the cover on my stock LM7 last night and it sounds great with the mods installed. I used a 22pf compensation cap on the chip.

FWIW - On Dirk's schematic, the cap called out as "C4" is marked "C14" on my pedal.

TD

Dirk_Hendrik · Post by **Dirk_Hendrik** » 01 Jan 2008, 17:45

Thanks man! I'll check later on the c14/c4 cap

sidseizure · Post by **sidseizure** » 08 Mar 2009, 16:28

I finally got around to doing this mod today, but I didn't do all of it. The 6n8 film cap has another cap connected to it on the underside of the board. Here's a picture:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/dvoyy/cap.jpg

I couldn't find this 0.0056uF film cap on Dirk's Fat Cat schematic. (Unless I was looking in the wrong place.) So my question is, do I remove it or leave it? I'm hoping I can remove it because desoldering the 6n8 and then reattaching the 0.0056uF to the 3n3 is going to be a pain.

Right now the pedal sounds pretty good, an improvement over the stock LA Metal. And in my opinion the LA Metal isn't that awful, just badly misnamed and pretty boring. It's basically just a mildly fuzzy/woolly light overdrive. Not awful, but not that interesting either.

Marko9801 · Post by **Marko9801** » 27 Apr 2010, 14:57

Today I received my LM7 and as I expected the stock pedal sucked as you all said

I had all the parts for the mods, and I'm so happy right now! Long time ago I had a RAT and I even built a GGG one, and this LM7 now sounds just like it! TNX Analogguru & Dirk Hendrik

sidseizure wrote:I finally got around to doing this mod today, but I didn't do all of it. The 6n8 film cap has another cap connected to it on the underside of the board. Here's a picture:

There is no caps under the PCB on the stock pedal

analogguru wrote: what ? LM 7 only 1n2 ? mine has 6n8 .....
I have to verifiy this....

1n for the compensation cap in the FC10 will result in a very "smooth" Rat ... if not to say dull...

analogguru

Mine LM7 also had a 6n8 cap!

And I used 33pF cap on the IC...
Maybe I'll give it a try with a LM308 after a few weeks but for now I'm satisfied with my new Ibanez RAT!