Ibanez - LA Metal (LM7) to Fat Cat conversion
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
I'd have to say... yes, it did for me.
We take two HC ratings for 2 different pedals:
Sound Quality 8.6 (23 responses)
Sound Quality 3.9 (9 responses)
I own em both. The first one is a long time stayer in my live setup and is known as the Ibanez Fat Cat (FC10)... as we all know it's a clone of a certain rodent. If the Fat Cat stays at home i't usually because a real Rodent is entering the stage.
The second one was bought years ago and has been doing virtually nothing but gathering dust in a very deep corner.... It listens to the name Ibanez LA Metal (LM7) and is, in my opinion the worst pedal I've ever played... together with the Boss Hyper Metal.... Pure crap. The LM7 does have a stainless steel case which together with the sudden "7" in it's number (as opposed of all 10's in teh power series).
So... I picked it out of that dusty corner today to give it a fresh attempt in finding out what exactly was wrong with the thing (or.. where it went wrong on the Maxon design table. Started reversing and was... more or less drawing up a rodent again, apart from some small but very crucial alterations in the circuit.
When done, in a last inspection the FC0101 on the PCB silkscreen started to give me a nasty feeling. Fat cat out of the cage and opened up. Exactly the same board but set up as a rodent.
All alterations on the LA metal's board are variations and ommissions of the Fat Cat's circuit meaning that within a 15 minutes a LM7 can be turned into a FatCat.
Now Fat Cat's arent that extremely expensive either but LM7's are dirt cheap. LM7's do have one very good thing, being that stainless steel casing.
So,
Get those LA Metal's out there. In only 15 minutes you'll have a real player!
I'll draw a circuit with the differences later. Dinner's waiting
We take two HC ratings for 2 different pedals:
Sound Quality 8.6 (23 responses)
Sound Quality 3.9 (9 responses)
I own em both. The first one is a long time stayer in my live setup and is known as the Ibanez Fat Cat (FC10)... as we all know it's a clone of a certain rodent. If the Fat Cat stays at home i't usually because a real Rodent is entering the stage.
The second one was bought years ago and has been doing virtually nothing but gathering dust in a very deep corner.... It listens to the name Ibanez LA Metal (LM7) and is, in my opinion the worst pedal I've ever played... together with the Boss Hyper Metal.... Pure crap. The LM7 does have a stainless steel case which together with the sudden "7" in it's number (as opposed of all 10's in teh power series).
So... I picked it out of that dusty corner today to give it a fresh attempt in finding out what exactly was wrong with the thing (or.. where it went wrong on the Maxon design table. Started reversing and was... more or less drawing up a rodent again, apart from some small but very crucial alterations in the circuit.
When done, in a last inspection the FC0101 on the PCB silkscreen started to give me a nasty feeling. Fat cat out of the cage and opened up. Exactly the same board but set up as a rodent.
All alterations on the LA metal's board are variations and ommissions of the Fat Cat's circuit meaning that within a 15 minutes a LM7 can be turned into a FatCat.
Now Fat Cat's arent that extremely expensive either but LM7's are dirt cheap. LM7's do have one very good thing, being that stainless steel casing.
So,
Get those LA Metal's out there. In only 15 minutes you'll have a real player!
I'll draw a circuit with the differences later. Dinner's waiting
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
Dirk, Dirk, Dirk......
Is reading really so complicated ?
On February 22, 2005 a user with the nickname "analogguru" wrote here:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=30197.0
this:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=52642.0
this:
enjoy and solder,
analogguru
Is reading really so complicated ?
On February 22, 2005 a user with the nickname "analogguru" wrote here:
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=30197.0
this:
One year ago, on December 22, 2006 the same user analogguru wrote here:analogguru wrote: You can use a 5534 without problems, Ibanez did it in their FC10 FatCat (Rat-clone).
The LM7 L.A. Metal uses the same PCB but without clipping diodes and for the compensation cap they used 1n8 = 1800pF, Low-pass filter 6n8 instead of 3n3
analogguru
https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/ ... ic=52642.0
this:
and this:analogguru wrote: Maybe it´s allowed to ask a question:
Is this a DIY-forum or not ?
If you are unhappy with the L.A. Metal why not modify it? Christmas is coming soon.....
The L.A. Metal uses exactly the SAME pcb as the Fat-Cat (FC-10) - never wondered why there is printed PCB-FC-0101A on the pcb ?
So, to convert the L.A. Metal into a Fat-Cat, you have to do (only) the following steps:
1.) Buy a 1k resistor, a 3n3 film-capacitor and a 3µ3 elko.
2.) Open the unit.
3.) Locate C6 (1n8), C12 (10µ), C16 (4µ7) and C20 (6n8) on the pcb.
4.) Desolder C6, C12, C16 and C20 (carefully, we need C12 and C16).
5.) Solder the 1k resistor in position R20, the 3n3 film-capacitor in C20, the 3µ3 elko in C12, the 4µ7 elko in C14 and the 10µ Elko in C16
6.) C6 stays empty
7.) control everything, especially your solder points.
8.) close the unit
9.) Now you are the lucky winner of an Ibanez FC-10 Fat Cat !!!
If you still don´t like the sound, you can by a LM 308, a ......, a..... and make the rat-version you like.
But this is another story...
analogguru
P.S.: for the technicians: C6 (1n8, huge!!!) is connected between pin 5 and 8 of the 5534 (frequency compensation).
Dirk, how long do you have your LA Metal now ?small update:
Peter Moore is right, the LM7 does not have the clipping diodes, instead there is in position D5 a 1M resistor.
so:
1a.) Buy two 1 N 4148 diodes.
4a.) desolder the 1M Resistor in position D5.
5a.) solder the two diodes in D5 and D6 (antiparallel !!!).
sorry that i forgot this.
analogguru
enjoy and solder,
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
Pisss!!!
Damn Am I owned
respect AG. You surely beat me to this!!
Damn Am I owned
respect AG. You surely beat me to this!!
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
yes and no.....DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?
There is more inside than in a Rat....
And this "more" seems to make this pedal unwanted...
Did you finish the mods on the TM5 as suggested ?
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
Let's say there's parts in the circuit that are derived from a Rat:DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?
http://dirk-hendrik.com/ibanez_thrashmetal.pdf
Similar to the Cyberdrive btw. There's some inheritance:
http://dirk-hendrik.com/ibanez_cyberdrive.pdf
but not definite clones.
- DWBH
- Cap Cooler
Mr. Guru, I've printed the instructions you've given me, but I haven't been able to actually do them, and to put that pedal roaring! Currently, I'm amp-less, and therefore I have no amp to test the pedal and see if the mods were good or bad! However, until the end of this year, I think I'll might be able to accomplish my goals - get an amp and put this bitch running (aka TM5), among other thingsanalogguru wrote:yes and no.....DWBH wrote:Isn't TM5 another rat-alike?
There is more inside than in a Rat....
And this "more" seems to make this pedal unwanted...
Did you finish the mods on the TM5 as suggested ?
analogguru
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
@Dirk
Your schematic contains mistakes:
The inpput buffer has its own bias: 9k1 to + (R3) and 22k to gnd (R4). In parallel to the 22k is a 10µ/16v (C2).
Then the 200 Ohm (not in series with the poti) R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).
Then the resistor in series with the Tone-poti is not 24k it is 2k4....
The coupling cap to the base of the output buffer (C21) is only 50V.
All FET´s are 2SK 118-O
All transistors - except TR3 - are 2SC 1815-GR
TR3 (for the gyrator in the EQ) is a 2SC 1815-Y, sometimes a 2SC 1815-BL.
analogguru
Your schematic contains mistakes:
The inpput buffer has its own bias: 9k1 to + (R3) and 22k to gnd (R4). In parallel to the 22k is a 10µ/16v (C2).
Then the 200 Ohm (not in series with the poti) R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).
Then the resistor in series with the Tone-poti is not 24k it is 2k4....
The coupling cap to the base of the output buffer (C21) is only 50V.
All FET´s are 2SK 118-O
All transistors - except TR3 - are 2SC 1815-GR
TR3 (for the gyrator in the EQ) is a 2SC 1815-Y, sometimes a 2SC 1815-BL.
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- modman
- a d m i n
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Great thread, ready for a great folder:
Pimp My Cheap Pedal (way beyond boutique quality)
Retitled and moved.
Pimp My Cheap Pedal (way beyond boutique quality)
Retitled and moved.
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- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
And as usual Mr AG is right againanalogguru wrote:@Dirk
Your schematic contains mistakes:
Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing. Thanks for keepin me alert.
- bajaman
- Old Solderhand
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You may not like it - BUT - he is never wrongAnd as usual Mr AG is right again
bajaman
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
Yep,bajaman wrote:You may not like it - BUT - he is never wrongAnd as usual Mr AG is right again
bajaman
And therefore a prime example of the level of analysis to aim for when reversing.
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
However,
With the changes AG mentiones earlier in this thread I have to disagree on some points:
http://www.dirk-hendrik.com/temp/ibanez ... _metal.pdf
Enjoy
With the changes AG mentiones earlier in this thread I have to disagree on some points:
http://www.dirk-hendrik.com/temp/ibanez ... _metal.pdf
Enjoy
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
Hmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmmmm....
So.... there is written: "Schematic is drawn for the LM7".
In my LM7 C20 is 6n8, not 3n....
Because I don´t own a FC10 for me would be interesting to clear the following things:
Is C6 really assembled in the FC, and if yes than really with 1n !!! ?
The schematic circling around doesn´t have one and the original Rat uses 30pF there.
Is R15 in the FC 200 Ohm too or as 1k as shown in the circling schmema ?
analogguru
So.... there is written: "Schematic is drawn for the LM7".
In my LM7 C20 is 6n8, not 3n....
Because I don´t own a FC10 for me would be interesting to clear the following things:
Is C6 really assembled in the FC, and if yes than really with 1n !!! ?
The schematic circling around doesn´t have one and the original Rat uses 30pF there.
Is R15 in the FC 200 Ohm too or as 1k as shown in the circling schmema ?
Not really because I wrote:Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing.
the 1k (R21) is still wrong. this part should look like in the FC10/LM 7.R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
Trashmetal.... correctedanalogguru wrote:Hmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmmmm....
So.... there is written: "Schematic is drawn for the LM7".
In my LM7 C20 is 6n8, not 3n....
Because I don´t own a FC10 for me would be interesting to clear the following things:
Is C6 really assembled in the FC, and if yes than really with 1n !!! ?
The schematic circling around doesn´t have one and the original Rat uses 30pF there.
Is R15 in the FC 200 Ohm too or as 1k as shown in the circling schmema ?
Not really because I wrote:Corrections as suggested confirmed and made in the drawing.
the 1k (R21) is still wrong. this part should look like in the FC10/LM 7.R20 is on one side connected to pin 1 of the 4558. That is the only part connected to the output. The other side of R20 is connected to the 1k (R21) the Poti (VR1) and the 100p cap (C8 ).
analogguru
FC:
C20: Other than that I forgot (yes...) the LM7 value,
LM7:1n2 (122), FC 3n (302)
C6:
LM7: 1n8 (182), FC 1n (102)
R15: 200 ohms both cases (and in the colour coding I can imagine the mistake for 1K is easily made)
- analogguru
- Old Solderhand
Information
what ? LM 7 only 1n2 ? mine has 6n8 .....C20: Other than that I forgot (yes...) the LM7 value,
LM7:1n2 (122), FC 3n (302)
I have to verifiy this....
1n for the compensation cap in the FC10 will result in a very "smooth" Rat ... if not to say dull...
analogguru
There´s a sucker born every minute - and too many of them end up in the bootweak pedal biz.
- TubeDude22
- Breadboard Brother
Checking in to say thanks for the mods. I popped the cover on my stock LM7 last night and it sounds great with the mods installed. I used a 22pf compensation cap on the chip.
FWIW - On Dirk's schematic, the cap called out as "C4" is marked "C14" on my pedal.
TD
FWIW - On Dirk's schematic, the cap called out as "C4" is marked "C14" on my pedal.
TD
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
Information
Thanks man! I'll check later on the c14/c4 cap
I finally got around to doing this mod today, but I didn't do all of it. The 6n8 film cap has another cap connected to it on the underside of the board. Here's a picture:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/dvoyy/cap.jpg
I couldn't find this 0.0056uF film cap on Dirk's Fat Cat schematic. (Unless I was looking in the wrong place.) So my question is, do I remove it or leave it? I'm hoping I can remove it because desoldering the 6n8 and then reattaching the 0.0056uF to the 3n3 is going to be a pain.
Right now the pedal sounds pretty good, an improvement over the stock LA Metal. And in my opinion the LA Metal isn't that awful, just badly misnamed and pretty boring. It's basically just a mildly fuzzy/woolly light overdrive. Not awful, but not that interesting either.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/dvoyy/cap.jpg
I couldn't find this 0.0056uF film cap on Dirk's Fat Cat schematic. (Unless I was looking in the wrong place.) So my question is, do I remove it or leave it? I'm hoping I can remove it because desoldering the 6n8 and then reattaching the 0.0056uF to the 3n3 is going to be a pain.
Right now the pedal sounds pretty good, an improvement over the stock LA Metal. And in my opinion the LA Metal isn't that awful, just badly misnamed and pretty boring. It's basically just a mildly fuzzy/woolly light overdrive. Not awful, but not that interesting either.
Today I received my LM7 and as I expected the stock pedal sucked as you all said
I had all the parts for the mods, and I'm so happy right now! Long time ago I had a RAT and I even built a GGG one, and this LM7 now sounds just like it! TNX Analogguru & Dirk Hendrik
And I used 33pF cap on the IC...
Maybe I'll give it a try with a LM308 after a few weeks but for now I'm satisfied with my new Ibanez RAT!
I had all the parts for the mods, and I'm so happy right now! Long time ago I had a RAT and I even built a GGG one, and this LM7 now sounds just like it! TNX Analogguru & Dirk Hendrik
There is no caps under the PCB on the stock pedalsidseizure wrote:I finally got around to doing this mod today, but I didn't do all of it. The 6n8 film cap has another cap connected to it on the underside of the board. Here's a picture:
Mine LM7 also had a 6n8 cap!analogguru wrote: what ? LM 7 only 1n2 ? mine has 6n8 .....
I have to verifiy this....
1n for the compensation cap in the FC10 will result in a very "smooth" Rat ... if not to say dull...
analogguru
And I used 33pF cap on the IC...
Maybe I'll give it a try with a LM308 after a few weeks but for now I'm satisfied with my new Ibanez RAT!