BAJA Sagittarian Charger (mini KLON) [documentation]

[aegert]

any ideas on why the buffer would be less than unity gain? Is it supposed to be less?

have you checked the colour codes of the resistors (especially around the buffer)?

yup
r1=10k
r2=1M
r3=100k
r4=560
r5=4.99k

interesting that the layout i used from build your own on the single sided board from Raymond has slightly different values albiet slight like r5 on my board is 4.99k on 2009 schem its a 5.1k but that will not be the difference. maybe I need to make r1=0 ohms and change the gain pot to a 100kb dual.. just ordered them some differences between me and the 2009 schem. Did I make a mistake using the info from http://buildyourowntone.com/klontypeclo ... agram.html

c4: me 150n schem 68n
c3: me 180n schem 100n
r6: me 15k schem 10k
c14: me 18n out to treb pot wiper via 1.8k schem 3.9n directly to wiper
u2A and u2B swapped no biggie
ce: me 47n schem 82n

[jhlind]

Trying to debug my build. Maybe this will help:
Voltage readings from ICs are:

Supply - 9.65V

IC1 (top left TL072 on pcb)
1. 4.44
2. 4.44
3. 1.21
4. 0
5. 4.05
6. 4.16
7. 2.99
8. 9.65

IC2 (far right TL072)
1. -7.62
2. -7.27
3. 4.38
4. -9.60
5. 4.38
6. 3.66
7. -7.59
8. -8.17

IC3 (7660 charger)
1. 9.62
2. 5.75
3. 0
4. -3.87
5. -9.61
6. 4.78
7. 4.44
8. 9.63

Any help in deciphering what these voltage readings are saying is greatly appreciated.
Already built one on same pcb, and it worked great first time. No debug.
Not sure what I've done on this one.

Thanks in advance,
j

PROBLEM SOLVED! The 4001 diodes were backwards. Turned them around and the unit fired up very nice. Great pedal.

[pinkjimiphoton]

son of a bit**....i was gonna say that, i did the same thing!! well done!!

[aegert]

OK figured out the buffer funny when 'n' looks like 'p' slight difference between 100n and 100p ROFL.. So now the front end is glassy a highly transparent. on to the next issue and I will preface this with the I never played a real Klon so i need some guidance.

1) I am getting very good boost from the pedal but it is utterly transparent with no drive. I have read here that people use it as a boost but samples I have heard on line have exhibited creamy tube like over drive. I want to make sure this is not just boost driving the amp.

2) assuming that the answer to '1' is it has a creamy driven sound where should I begin my search LOL.

I changed my gain dual gang from a 500kb to the spec'd out 100kB. I have validated the parts around the gain sections but as with the n to p S&%t I will re check. WHen I get to my office I will post the voltages on the 3 ic's.

I have connected to a fresh battery

IC1: tl072acn gain buffer
Pins:
1: 4.35
2: 4.35
3: 3.40
4: 0
5: 4.19
6: 4.23
7: 4.24
8: 8.48

IC2: BB OPA2604AP tone
Pins:
1: 4.25
2: 4.24
3: 4.19
4: -7.37
5: 4.21
6: 4.22
7: 4.21
8: 14.79

IC3: icl7660SCPA
Pins:
1: 8.41
2: 4.09
3: 0
4: -3.64
5: -7.29
6: 4.06
7: float
8: 8.41

Got to
run to work will be checking in. Any ideas would be great thanks in advance. It looks like only half of my tone chip is pumping .. I will be really pissed if this is a diode issue. the cathode is always '-' and is the line on a diode but the board I got has a '+' sign on the lay out. This should be the anode but I was assured that the "+" meant Cathode or the line on the diode...

[pinkjimiphoton]

if it's the 1n4742, yep, it's probably a diode issue, on a lot of the layouts it's BACKWARDS!

i reccomend socketing the diodes so you can swap 'em around if ya need to. on my first build, i had the 1n4742 backwards. fucked around with it for like 2 weeks before i figured it out.
second build was no prob.
last build, i got the 1n4001's backwards. again, layout was wrong. check the schematic, if in doubt, cuz THAT is right!!

your voltages on ic 2 are wack....should be about 8-9 volts on pin 8

and your charge pump is a little off too...it's probably the diodes.

[aegert]

if it's the 1n4742, yep, it's probably a diode issue, on a lot of the layouts it's BACKWARDS!

i reccomend socketing the diodes so you can swap 'em around if ya need to. on my first build, i had the 1n4742 backwards. fucked around with it for like 2 weeks before i figured it out.
second build was no prob.
last build, i got the 1n4001's backwards. again, layout was wrong. check the schematic, if in doubt, cuz THAT is right!!

your voltages on ic 2 are wack....should be about 8-9 volts on pin 8

and your charge pump is a little off too...it's probably the diodes.

its a 1n4739a with the band side (cathode) to +9v and anode non band to ground. i just switched it and it smoked LOL weird should be able to take 9v. and my battery is at like 8.8v

for the 1n4002's i am using the bands (cathodes are pointing to v2+ and the anodes are serially running to 9v.

Help me here when you say pin 8 should be 8-9 volts are you talking about IC2 if so isn't that pin v+2 which would be the business end of the 2 series 1n400x diodes. shouldn't those diodes take the 9v. and do about a 1.5x to the dc voltage fed into it? so with a 9v supply should I be seeing 13+ v?

Is there a good set of voltages on teh the thread? I read through it and it seems like the only ones posted were people with issues. I can't remember seeing a good chart. I will look through again maybe I missed the real klons voltages...

On another note I swapped out the values of the project drawing for the ones in MC's schem, and the tone of the pedal got real nice just no drive... Its probably a resistor in the feed back loop ore something any ideas on where to start looking would be appreciated...

[aegert]

Hi all just checked the maxx 1044 voltages on a real klon and i got;
1)11.64v
2)8.1v
3)3.2v
4)Ground
5)4.29v
6)-
7)1.34
8)11.6v

I also tested various pins together to find our 18v which was pins 1&5.
Try checking that you're getting voltage to your tl072 or other opamps. To test, place your (-) probe of your multi meter to pin 4 and your (+) probe to pin 8. Record your findings. That should keep you going for a while..

Hope this helps?

found this but this would assume a 12v. supply as pins 1 & 8 are tied together to V+

mine are:
1: 8.41
2: 4.09
3: 0
4: -3.64
5: -7.29
6: 4.06
7: float
8: 8.41

The schematic has pin 3 to ground as in my chart here but teh klon quoted above shows pin 4 ground which is connected to c21 HELP? LOL

[pinkjimiphoton]

if i get a chance later, i will try and get some voltages for ya.

that diode should NOT have smoked...sounds to me like there's a short somewhere...check all the traces with a good pair of goggles on!!

[aegert]

I have beeped it out and found a connection that should not have been. I had to make a wire bride in the diodes due to the thin traces and changing them out based on a bad drawing. I should have known better. solder had dripped.. I cant crank it in my office but it has much more gain now and is clipping. I will test it out tonight. Just let it be said that drawings should not have a + for the cathode of a diode Its all good but my solder sucker ripped the pad right off the board LOL I had to point to point one of the diodes

Stay tuned.

Next q's
1) What are everyone favorite ic's for this thing I guess the buffer should be the tl072 but the tone ic I was going to leave it with teh Bur Brown OPA2604AP. I have shit loads of others too

2) Is it worth swapping out the 9v zener for a 12v and go with a different charge pump and run 12v? how does it effect the tone?

Thanks for putting up with the q's.. Adam

[pinkjimiphoton]

imho it sounds about the same, other than head room, between 9 and 18v. the higher the voltage, the more balls it has.

i used tl072's in mine, it's quiet and has plenty of balls...try 4558, 4559, tl082 etc...see which flavor best suits you!!

sorry to hear about the pcb...i've had that happen before too, can be a real bitch!!!!!!

if it sounds good at office volume, it should sound even better cranked. if ya get a high pitched whine, short pin 6 or 7 (forget which) on the charge pump to ground...i had to do that on mine, it made a world of difference.

glad ya got it working, it's a great pedal!!

kudos to klon and all those who made this possible!!

[aegert]

thanks for the heads up on the whine.. probably pin 7 as it floats in this build. it has tons tons of volume to go. unity has the volume set at about 9 to 10 o'clock. at low vols cant really here eq tone but it will grind a bit I think. I will report back.. The buffer is nice but one of my guitars has a strato blaster in it it and so many other pedals have buffers my amp switcher is buffered as well. I might just tru bypass the thing in the end. Been toying with looping the whole board for easy access as the pedal train pro is filled LOL reaching stuff aint easy

[pinkjimiphoton]

FWIW, my first one i built minus the buffer, and true bypass sounds just as good imho.

really glad ya got it sorted out!!

if you take out the 47k resistor, and put it on one side of a 3pdt and put a 4.7k resistor on the other side, you can change it from the classic klon od sound to a pretty awesome distortion...and even add an led to distinguish which is on...not that there's ANY doubt!!

[aegert]

It drives pretty hard. There were 2 values of caps I didn't have. I am gettin them to se how it changes the tone. It sounds really good. Fits a bunch of tones I am looking for. I like it driven by a treble booster as well. I need to figure out where it fits best in the rig to finalize my thoughts. I have it after the tb, ge fuzz face with booster and brute drive but before the les Luis. I am building up an eternity burst, purple plexi 800 and hao rust driver. I will weed out. I haven't found that great plexi pedal yet... Any ideas for the best Marshall style drive best with switches to voice plexi, 800, 900 that would be cool.... Thanks for the help

[pinkjimiphoton]

tough call on a marshall style drive...my toneblaster sounds kinda marshally, so does my burnt toast overdriver...but that's too subjective to really know bro.

i say...build 'em all...then sort 'em out. lol

[aegert]

Build the rust driver it is a plexi. Granted it's gain is fixed.. Working on that but this is at classic and I mean classic 1959 grind at the perfect point of thick roll... Wow

[pinkjimiphoton]

sounds fun. pretty sure it won't be too hard to put a gain control in it.

[aegert]

you are right but everyone who has done it in the threads has botched it.. they have neglected to set low and top ranges on teh pot with an in series res so the op amp doesn't become an integrator and effectively shut off the out put.. I am very new to the forums . There was mentions of other forums with 2 knob versions but I couldn't find them. I only assume they did what I said. I will post int eh threads after I work it all out this weekend... but it is pretty right as it is. You know with a plexi there is the one tone you are looking for and the pedal does it strait out

[pinkjimiphoton]

sounds good.

[rusty_pinto]

Ok, i built one. I used the May '08 schematic and parts list, but i did my own layout for a 1590BB.



Guts



Voltages check out great: putting in +9.5VDC gives -9.4VDC at the charge pump inverter pin, and +17.8VDC at the boosted supply output. If anyone can use the layout, i'm happy to share.

[Seiche]

If anyone can use the layout, i'm happy to share.

please do! layout looks great! board mounted pots and led, top mounted jacks => very nice!