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Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 29 Oct 2011, 13:22
by radioegg
Hi folks!

I have a Laney LC15 that I have decided to give new life. From before a tech has added ceramic sockets for the tubes (the previous ones were plastic), and a speaker out (the cheap combo cab was totally useless, all mdf, even the baffle, and with a horrible 10 HH Invader).

But the amp itself plays nice, and I will either put it into a head cab or build a new combo cab for it (probably with 2x12 or 2x10 Weber blue alnicos). So now I wonder: What mods would you people recomend for this amp? Because it's a cheap amp, I might try to do a lot of things with it, but it would be nice to hear peoples experiences and opinions before jumping into it.

FYI I have never modded an amp before, but I have built quite a few stompboxes with good results, and I think modding my LC15 would be a nice experience before I try to build an amp myself.

Regards
Tor

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 29 Oct 2011, 16:25
by Hides-His-Eyes
I had an LC15R and the effects loop was dreadful; you could at least make that true serial, and perhaps buffer it.

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 29 Oct 2011, 22:28
by radioegg
Well this is a LC15, so no reverb or effects loop...

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 30 Oct 2011, 06:08
by phatt
Might help if you define what you want first??

i.e. more or less Dist?
More or less bass/treb?

If it's all pcb stuff then often you are limited to what can be modified.
Phil.

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 30 Oct 2011, 10:07
by radioegg
Yes Phil, it's a pcb circuit card.

Any mod that would make the amp more reliable is interesting.

My main aim is to learn about working on an amp. I have built stomps, and want to move on to amps, but modding this little amp would be a nice learning experience.

From before I've got the vox and marshall ground covered (jmp master lead, and a dc30). This amp uses EL84 output tubes, so it covers some vox ground by nature.

I cannot say that I want this or that mod. Any improvement is welcome, the learning experience is the most important. But if I should pick, would it be possible to make it accept 6v6 tubes, and do other stuff to make it sound more like a blackface deluxe or princeton (or brown or tweed for that matter)?

BTW, here is the schematics: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electron ... eylc15.pdf

Tor

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 30 Oct 2011, 10:46
by snyder80
Hi Tor!

Well the LC15 is a little nice amp. But i dont recommend it as a DIY-Mod-Platform. Because a lot in there is smd-construted, so changing isnt that easy, especialy for starters...
But you could try to change the 1k5/47k at the PI into 820 or 960/22k or 39k. This way the PI gets a little hotter biased and you should loose some fizzyness..

Since you didnt like the Combo at all, i would think about building a head-Casse and flipping the chassis upside-down. This way, you allow the heat to flaot out of the amp“s chassis.

Maybe a change in the Outputtransformer could help to improve the sound.

But keep in mind - the HighVoltage - even in an unpowered amp -can seriously KILL or hurt you. YOU MUST know what you are doing...

PS: Btw, just because the LC15 uses EL84 it is not ment to be soundwise in the voxish ballpark...

Have fun and take care,

snyder80

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 10:46
by phatt
Hi Radioegg,

Snyder80 has the right idea, SMD! WTF Ouch! Yeah stay away as you are going to dig a big hole for yourself.

Before you mess with ANY PCB,,,**Understand This FIRST.**

The PCB is the Heart of the Amplifier, it's often the only part you can't fix. If you Bugga the traces on single sided you might be lucky to fix it,, but bugga
those really fine traces on Double sided surface mount do-dads and it's instant Toxic waste land fill. Tears will almost certainly be the final result.


That last Q needs a clear understanding also.
I Quote;
" "would it be possible to make it accept 6v6 tubes, and do other stuff to make it sound more like a blackface deluxe or princeton (or brown or tweed for that
matter)?" "

Answer, A sex change is probably easier and less painfull. LOL :shock: [smilie=eek2.gif]


You need to start searching for good info on Valve basics. Try *Valve Wizard* sells books,, Also King TUT Book 4 is supposed to have a lot of tricks.
Also visit the Tone Lizard site ,, and check the *Tone Lounge* while you are there. Heaps of good basic common sense from the above people.

Although some paremeters of 6V6 and EL84's are similar they are very different to work with. (Speaking from experience)

Or read my babble on here:
http://www.guitargear.net.au/discussion ... ic=22758.0

Halfway down that page is a post by me about how all the basic Valve circuits work. 2 posts down is *electric triode* comment. He is one of the better Qualified Valve geeks in Australia. (I've learned heaps from ET and his wealth of Valve savvy)

Needless to say I'm NOT an expert but being a guitar player since my early teens I've learned a lot about deciphering techno babble and BS.
(you can save a $fortune$ by learning to read between the lines) Your Amp is the last thing on the planet that will sound like an AC 30 because *Your Amp is FIXED bias* and the laws if fizzy stuff tells one that it will react very different to the same Amp that has K bias.

Brian May only used the *Normal Channel* of the AC 30 which is ONE Triode (half an AX7) and straight to the power stage thru a simple volume pot. (just adding a simple treble booster in front go figure :scratch: :hmmm: )

Yet most modern amps look like a wine rack in the back with multiple Triode's to get a half decent OD effect???? WTF?? goes on??? go figure?
AGain I've built it both ways,,,, Give me a Cathode Biased Amp anyday over fixed bias as they are far more reactive to dynamics. :secret:

If all you ever do is play clinically clean don't waste money on Valves just use SS Amps.
BUT if distortion dynamics is what you desire then yes a well thought out Cathode biased Valve Amp can be very rewarding and will out TONE the biggest
Wanker Brand Fixed bias Amps any day.

Also Bear in mind *the Crux of the Guitar Amp Problem* which is hardly ever mentioned.
SPL,,, How loud it is before it distorts.

Whether you have a Marshall Major 200 Watt or a 10 or 15 Watt Cathode biased little rig, ***Both are likely to be too Loud for low level practice.*** :shock:

Amp Makers are fully aware of this issue and hence the Master volume amps with 90% distortion achieved via triode fizz bottles are all the rage but in truth it will never have the same mojo as a simple Amp built years ago cranked up loud which adds the tone and compression nuances of the PI >power stage and output Transformer.

So Any multi triode preamp distortion based boot-tweaky Amp built today is hardly likely to sound as convincing as the REAL THING. :wink:
Amp makers know full well the 75% of the buying public are home thrashers and want heaps and heaps of distortion but at containable levels.
They sell more Amps that way. $$$$$$

So don't complain if your exotic overrated funny brand name fixed bias fizz bottle rig does not quite deliver what is claimed on the advertizing brochure. :blackeye

Cheers,, Phil.

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 31 Oct 2011, 13:38
by lolbou
I've done a through-hole version of the main PCB here so you might end up modding the new PCB. It's verified and still in my unit.

I did not mod it, since it's working fine with the Marshall 1912 cabinet and JJ preamp tubes (and the Les Paul)...

Back then, I thought about standby switch and bias setting in the back. I had a site bookmarked concerning some other mods (mentionned in a thread here but it is unavailable now... :(

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 03 Nov 2011, 20:13
by radioegg
Thanks for your input. I think I'll be content with Snyder80s suggestions then, at least I'll add a Mercury Magnetics transformer with 16,8 and 4 ohm tap. Wich makes sense because I'll put the amp into a head cab anyway, and then I could use it with a lot of different cabinets.

Snyder: Is the resistor swap you mentioned tested?

But I am determined to learn more about amps. Maybe build a 5e3, then? Or is there other kits that would be a good learning experience for the first timer? I'd love to build some brown fender amp, especially because I don't have a fender from before.

Tor

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 05 Nov 2011, 16:53
by snyder80
Hi!

Well it is indeed tested/verified by many users in the 18Watt forum in small el84 amps. I did try it by myself and it takes a little of the stiffness from the PI.
Simplified: PI-Bias (1k5) resistor is half the value each Triode "sees". 1k5 means each LTPI triode sees 3k and is biased a little colder.

You can learn a lot on amp design by giong to aikens Tech-page, Merlin Blencowes book and website (valvewizard) and the pentode-press Amp-books. Do not forget "ampgarage" and german "tube-town" board.

But remember: Those resistors a tiny SMD-Resistors in the LTPI so it requires some soldering skills...

Greetings,
snyder

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 19 Jan 2012, 22:05
by radioegg
Here we go again...

I have returned to the question of modding the LC15. I recently added a speaker out, so I could use it with an external cab, and I FELL IN LOVE. What an improvement! But still I want more, like less drive, some changes in the tonestack.

What struck me is, it should be possible to rebuild this amp in a new chassis with a turret board? Then there would be no problem with pcb and smd, and I could mod almost anything, use high quality parts, and so on. To me the obvious answer would be yes, but it seems there are some integrated circuits in this amp too, and that might be a problem? ICs are what it looks like to me, I haven't got the amp here to check, but look at lolbous pictures in his thread.

Anyway: That would require me learning to design a layout for a turret circuit board, and the wiring. Are there any good info on this anywhere on the web?

BTW, the amp will go into a head, and I'll make a 2x12 cab for it with something like a Celestion alnico blue and a greenback :horsey:

Cheers!

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 11:28
by phatt
Hi Radioegg,,
Sounds like a fair plan,,,
Just remove all the opamps and silly stuff.
Simply connect P4 to P3 on the schematic straight to the PI input and you are done.

For less drive ,,,try an AU7 in V1.
Have fun,, Phil.

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 21 Jan 2012, 23:50
by radioegg
Hi Phil!

Just remove all the opamps?? It's saturday night here, family's gone to bed, me sitting by the PC, having just one more glass(es) of red wine... So my level of understaning is a bit... gone... Just remove all the opamps??? WTF are they there for then, if I just can remove them??? Are you serious, or just kidding??

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 09:10
by phatt
Hi radioegg,,

Sadly NO I'm not kidding you ,,,, in fact the only reason all this CRAP stuff happens is because the MASSes of you kids out there think you need efx loops.
Which of course is BS.
The makers of Amps want to make money so give the ignorant what they think they need and make it real cheap so the save money while giving you MORE.
EASY,,, run a spring rev with opamps and run efx loops as well and we sell more Amps..

Do they care that you actually end up with a worse sound ???? No no no. Because they are giving you what the market demands.


Just quietly ,,,,, I've never been able to work out just why anyone would ever need an EFX loop in a good Valve Amp?????????

As all the greatest guitar sounds I've ever heard have been done without efx loops. Go figure??? :scratch: :scratch: :hmmm: :hmmm:

Cheers and Have fun and great tone without all the BS. :popcorn:

Phil.

Re: Mods for Laney LC15?

Posted: 22 Jan 2012, 10:15
by radioegg
I see! And I totally agree with you on effect loops. Well, I'll just start drawing then :-)

Cheers!