New version of DIY Layout Creator

supro · Post by **supro** » 18 Jan 2008, 02:29

bacaruda wrote:FWIW - I am also unable to run the program on OSX (10.3.9). I tried updating java and opening from terminal too. Might be a good thing if I can't get it to run though since the mac is my work computer and I'll just waste my whole day making layouts and end up getting fired . . .

Still, any other suggestions to get it to work? I'm guessing that it only works on >10.4. If that's the case, any chance of fixing this before the final release Bancika?

btw, Thanks for making a great program!

yep, same here,so I think its safe to say it does not work on 10.3.9.

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 18 Jan 2008, 15:39

I have no idea what 10.3.9 is and what makes DIYLC not work on it.
I don't use any platform dependent code as far as I know, but it needs java 1.5 or newer.
cheers

supro · Post by **supro** » 18 Jan 2008, 16:04

bancika wrote:I have no idea what 10.3.9 is and what makes DIYLC not work on it.
I don't use any platform dependent code as far as I know, but it needs java 1.5 or newer.
cheers

OK, well I don't know if its too difficult for you to do a modification on your app, but I just researched the Apple website and Im afraid people on mac OSX 10.3.9(last version before 10.4), the latest Java update is 1.4.2.
Java 1.5 is only for 10.4 and up.
Is it very difficult for you to make your app work on Java 1.4?
thanks

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 18 Jan 2008, 18:25

Is DIYLC Open source? If so that could open up a whole new range of possibilities with parting out projects to members with Java coding experience to make it an even more powerful program.

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 18 Jan 2008, 18:53

supro, I don't know about that. I'd have to install older java version and try to compile DIYLC with it...
I'm new to java (this is my first project) so I don't know much about it.

vanessa, no, it's not open source, at least now. I don't know much about open source, to be honest and don't want to loose anything by doing so. I'm not saying it won't become OS at one point...I just have to know it's the best solution for all.

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 18 Jan 2008, 19:18

bancika wrote: vanessa, no, it's not open source, at least now. I don't know much about open source, to be honest and don't want to loose anything by doing so. I'm not saying it won't become OS at one point...I just have to know it's the best solution for all.

I'm quite familiar with the GNU (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html).

The way you have to look at it is this...

If you're giving it away for free there will always be an old free copy out there or people downloading pirated versions of what you're trying to sell and not caring that you are now charging for it. There will be a sense of being slighted by the community that you once provided for and that will haunt you down the road.

What you can do with the this forum and the use of the GNU is have an open source 'beta' version that would allow for hundreds of coders around the globe to contribute and expand this software into possibly the most powerful of its kind to date in a matter of months.
Then you could capitalize on your early efforts by offering bug-free versions (or service pack updates), yearly phone & email support subscriptions to businesses and institutions at a price.

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 18 Jan 2008, 23:00

vanessa wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the GNU (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html).

If you're giving it away for free there will always be an old free copy out there or people downloading pirated versions of what you're trying to sell and not caring that you are now charging for it.

I do not understand this, you say I'm giving it for free and I'm charging for it in the same sentence. I don't plan to charge anything for it, that's my gift to the DIY community.

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 19 Jan 2008, 00:08

bancika wrote: I do not understand this, you say I'm giving it for free and I'm charging for it in the same sentence. I don't plan to charge anything for it, that's my gift to the DIY community.

Sorry I misread your post. I misunderstood that you planned to keep it free.

I don't mean to pry (that's not my intension) just food for thought.
Under the GNU you retain all rights to the software regardless. The GNU also protects you legally should you need be. When flying the "GNU banner" so to speak you belong to a collective, and that protects you almost like being apart of a large corporation.
I can foresee there being a lot of interest from other coders to take part in furthering the project especially now that it's in Java.

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 19 Jan 2008, 15:25

well, I plan to keep it free, that's for sure

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 19 Jan 2008, 19:49

Hi bancika. I've tried your new software (I had the earlier version installed). However, I have to say I didn't like it. In terms of design is much better, of course, and the program is much more fluid and doesn't crash.

However, when making layouts, as we add the components, we also have to add the solder pads.
A thing that irritates me is the copper traces, that connect each component. When I add one, I have to shorten it and put it in the right place. However, the 'trace', as I move it, "gets stuck" to other components and drags them.

And, from what I saw, there's no PnP option (render of the image of the copper traces and pads).

Kudos and keep up the good work!

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 19 Jan 2008, 20:21

DWBH wrote:... However, the 'trace', as I move it, "gets stuck" to other components and drags them.

I had that same problem. Hit the F2 key to toggle the "sticking" on and off.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 19 Jan 2008, 22:56

Edit : Sorry, already answered.

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 20 Jan 2008, 00:49

Thanks, I didn't know that.

cpnyc23 · Post by **cpnyc23** » 19 Feb 2008, 15:36

So far this looks very very promising. MUCH better than the previous version. I love the library and the enclosures allow for more than just circuit board layouts. It now is a full pedal project design tool.

All I can say is THANK YOU!!!! Really amazing that you did this for others and that you are planning on keeping it free. Impressive to say the least.

-chris

JiM · Post by **JiM** » 07 Jul 2008, 21:57

A little "bump" about Open Source ... Maybe i should start another thread for that ?

As Vanessa said, i'm not trying to force bancika to make DIY Layout Creator a Free Software, but give him (and anybody reading this) some ideas of what it is, and why I think it's Good. I'm sure everybody around here will like this "philosophy", as it's really close to what makes this forum what it is.

At first, there is a small problem with english language : the word "free" can have two meanings, one about money and the other about liberty. This makes a bit more difficult to explain what Free Software is, and why it's different from freeware. One common metaphor is to distinct "free speech" from "free beer" (hum, some guys then did a free beer receipe

). Some use the french/spanish word "libre", others talk about Open Source (wich is subtlely different, but for now we don't care).

So, Free Software does not always mean "gratis". It means Freedom. There are four basic freedoms guaranteed by a Free Software :
* The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
* The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
* The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
* The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

The way to enforce these freedoms in a world of economic competition was found by the GNU project (http://www.gnu.org), in the form of a clever use of the Copyright. They not-so-jokingly call that the Copyleft. As the copyright protects automatically all the works of art (books, paints, songs, schematic drawings, PCB layouts ... and software programs too !), and as only the owner of the copyright can licence its work, they did a licence that enforce the 4 freedoms above, instead of restricting them. They wrote the General Public Licence (GPL), now in its third version, and court-proven. There are now many other copyleft licences, for several purposes. An interesting one is Creative Commons : http://creativecommons.org/ I use it (CC-BY-SA) in all the drawings I post here.

You may not know, buy you already use a lot of Free Software : PhpBB running this forum is under GPL, the web server is probably Apache, for sure on a Linux operating system. And the Firefox you're using to read this is a Free Software too ! Now Java (JRE) is also Free Software. Some Free Software are also commercial products, and lots of companies make money with Free Software, mostly by providing services and support. Some say "a Free Software is gratis when it has been paid once".

So, what about DIY Layout Creator ? It's a freeware, because it's gratis. Its download does not seem to be limited, so we have freedom 0, and probably freedom 2 too. But it's not a Free Software, mostly because it's source code is not available. A freeware is closed, and cannot be enhanced by users. Some even contain malwares.

As bancika kindly writes this program to help the DIYers,

bancika wrote:that's my gift to the DIY community.

I guess he wouldn't mind to get some help back from the thankful users of his work. There's already beta-testers, people asking for features ...

But if this software were Free, any skilled one could adapt it for its needs, add features, correct bugs, but also (for non-coders) translate the menus, write documentation, add components in the library, etc. and share the resulting enhancements with the whole community. That's exactly the point of freedoms 1 and 3.

Just like we do with gutshots, schematics, mods, and de-gooping.

btw, I thought that "free" in FreeStompboxes.org stands for "free speech". But looking at Bajaman and Briggs avatars, I'm not sure anymore.

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 10 Sep 2008, 14:06

Hey,
here's an update: I started yet another version from scratch (in the meantime I improved my java skills so I'll be able to do it better) and more importantly it's open source. New address is diylc.sourceforge.net (site is still not all done).
Cheers,
Bane

Silent Fly · Post by **Silent Fly** » 10 Sep 2008, 15:03

bancika wrote:Hey,
here's an update: I started yet another version from scratch (in the meantime I improved my java skills so I'll be able to do it better) and more importantly it's open source. New address is diylc.sourceforge.net (site is still not all done).
Cheers,
Bane

Thanks Bane for your contribution to the DIY community.

I am very pleased to hear that you decided to move to the Open Source licensing model.

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 11 Sep 2008, 17:53

I have a question that may have already been answered about the Beta version:

When you create a layout with components placed, how do you then get an image of just the copper traces (for PnP transfer)? Is there some "print traces" feature I haven't found yet, or do you have to remove all the components and then export the image?

Thanks,
Alex

bancika · Post by **bancika** » 12 Sep 2008, 21:46

To be honest I don't remember, there should be export PnP feature but not sure. Now I'm in the headspace for the new version

Cheers

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 14 Sep 2008, 04:46

bancika wrote:Hey,
here's an update: I started yet another version from scratch (in the meantime I improved my java skills so I'll be able to do it better) and more importantly it's open source. New address is diylc.sourceforge.net (site is still not all done).
Cheers,
Bane

That rocks Bane! I hope that others will jump on board and help code it, only good can come of it.